Constant's pations

If it's more than 30 minutes old, it's not news. It's a blog.

Saturday, July 30, 2005

Democrats join the fascists

Bob Just talked about the spreading fascism in the Democratic party. But it wasn't a premonition of 9-11.

He was talking about the problems in the DNC in 2000. Those fascist tendencies are resurfacing.

The problem the Democrats have is that they rationalize their conduct in that they're fighting a "greater enemy."

Today, it's clear that the ghosts of the 1930s have not only infected the RNC, but the DNC as well.

Look around you

I've been noticing alot of belligerence. There's smearing going on on both sides.

People aren't reading things, but making accusations based on "what was said."

And people are asserting wrongdoing without being able to point to compelling evidence.

Rather, instead of rising above it, the DNC appears to be sanctioning the conduct.

All in the name of keeping people focused. Huh? That sound like more of the Nazi-stuff of the 1930s: "Keep them focused," "define success."

I'm all for free and open debate, but the issue isn't to choose between the RNC and DNC.

Rather, both sides needs to realize the real issue is between the Constitution and tyranny.

Unfortunately, some have suggested that asserting there are problems within the DNC, or that people are acting in abusive ways, is immediately turned around as if the person making the comment has the problem.

That's all well and good. But that's no different than the problems we've been seeing in the RNC.

What is the DNC's approach? Not to take a step back, but to smear those making their concerns known.

See what you notice. Be mindful of the following abusive, manipulative practices in the DNC:

  • Smearing those who speak out

  • Requiring people to explain themselves over and over

  • Calling those they disagree with "mental cases"

  • Mandating absurd levels of "proof" that are not needed

  • Shifting the burden of proof

  • Denial of their conduct

  • Rationalization of their misconduct

  • Demand others not speak out about issues, or focus only on narrowly focused topics

  • Dissuade others from helping those who have been targeted

  • Labeling

  • Demanding evidence to justify belief; then rejecting or not reading that information once it is provided

  • Using compliance with unreasonable requests as proof of illusory infractions

  • Asserting wrongs and deviations that are not supported by evidence

  • Using allegations, not evidence, as the basis to make decisions

  • Shifting the focus from the problem to the messenger

  • Mobilizing the masses to assert an infraction, where no real problem exists

    Only listening to sources when the information is consistent with their agenda; implying the source has a "problem" when the conclusion points out something that is not consistent with their agenda

    Bullies are quick to embrace fascism

    In short, they're simply being bullies. And this was supposed to be the stuff that they were fighting against when they go up against the RNC.

    But the choice isn't between one bully or another. The real question is whether the DNC will wake up to their slide into fascism, or simply embrace that which they are fighting.

    Read more . . .

  • Iraq: Grand jury closer to finding President linked to war crimes

    Does non-sense and absurdity get louder the closer you are to the truth and power?

    Those most absurd arguments are floated. Not simply as a ruse, but in hopes of sucking energy out of the Downing Street Memo coalition.

    The President is under a real threat of being found to have committed war crimes. And the Fitzgerald grand jury continues to remain a credible threat to the RNC vital interests.

    Discussion

    Fitzgerald continues to make headway. He continues to gather evidence.

    And the President is worried. He's not sure what the grand jury is doing. He hopes to affect the investigation by rallying the nation. Rove and the President are working together to distract attention from Fitzgerald, to make people believe "there is nothing there."

    But behind the scenes they are working to put pressure on the Senate to have Fitzgerald interfered with. To have questions and doubts thrown his way.

    Their goal is to not simply obstruct justice, but it is to make the public believe that "whatever Fitzgerald comes back with" is not credible.

    Surely, if Fitzgerald was "not credible" he would not have been appointed. But he was.

    Indeed, if Fitzgerald "had nothing to worry about," there wouldn't be so much effort to discredit him; nor would there be the recycling of absurd comments about the Iraq invasion.

    Iraq remains a nation that is an unlawful war of aggression. The comments below show there are many people who want to insulate the President using all sorts of non-sense.

    Yet, some would like to argue that there are compelling arguments to justify the invasion of Iraq. Some have asserted that it was Libya's reaction to the war that has left us better off. Too bad all the arguments justifying war are both unlawful and inconsistent with reality.

    If the RNC-leadership has a problem with the "poor arguments," it's time to stop shifting attention to the public to "prove" the other position. Rather, the appropriate response is to have an inquiry into the Downing Street Memo.


    Yet, this comment made me pause and say, "I think this guy has something."

    Not nice to call Republicans Scum

    If you want to call yourself a scum, do so. But don't call "republicans" scum. That word isn't all that descriptive.

    Further, you cannot claim that you are the resident Republican, as there are other Republicans like myself who speak out against the RNC.


    Apply the label narrowly to yourself


    As the resident "scum-publican" that replies here,


    Speak for yourself.

    Twisting the story

    The people who decided to speak out, are the ones who are getting attacked with fowl comments.

    It is absurd to accuse those who "speak out" as having the problem.

    Thus, this comment simply asks us to embrace some absurd sense of reality: That somehow, the target of the attacks is the one who is responsible.

    It's appropriate to speak out against an unlawful war of aggression.


    Shifting attention


    I am shocked and appalled that the Blue Star Mothers of America would respond in this way.


    If there was no problem. . .

    One tactic to approach the issue is to rationalize the misconduct, or couch it in terms that are permissible.

    In this case, the author is doing something called, "Association," whereby they deflect the attack by saying, "It is not appropriate. . ." because in X, Y, Z -"other situation" it is not appropriate.

    Well, there's one small problem. We're not talking other situations; we're talking about this mother.

    Further, the RNC-Rove machine has already shown that they do attack, smear and discredit all ranks, whether they be demonstrators, mothers, activists, or officials in government.


    Why are you defensive?


    It is a mistake to attach this event however to the Bush administration as it would be inappropriate for me to attach any of you to any leftist organization and say that any appalling thing they do you are responsible for.


    You're not making any headway in "saying that the RNC isn't responsible." The Republicans do this all the time.

    And they have apologists like you in the party that like to do this as well.

    Still chasing fantasies

    Remember, we're talking about a mother who's been smeared for speaking out against the war.

    What's the RNC approach? To keep digging back in history to "justify" the war. This is a diversion from the issue: Why are people attacking those who speak out against an unlawful war of aggression?

    No answer from the RNC apologists below. Notice what they're doing:

  • Still trying to rationalize in their own mind "why they invaded illegally"

  • Trying to explain away the Downing Street Memo

  • Distracting from an unlawful war of aggression



    Illusory links


    I have to say however that there are specific ties to 9/11 that Iraq has, and the point of the Iraq war was to disarm known hostile countries in the Middle East of any potential weapons they have been known to have.


    There are no links between 9-11 and Iraq.

    The "point" of the Iraq invasion was to invade, regardless of the facts.

    There's been no disarming, there's no WMD.

    The Downing Street Memo shows that the facts were fixed.

    Iraq was under the surveillance/watch of the no fly zone and an embargo.

    The US was the one that was being hostile.

    It is absurd to change the "excuse for the war" from "imminent threat" to "potential threat." That violates the UN Charter. So, by admitting it was a "potential threat," means that in response other nations can "attack the US potential preparations for a pre-emptive war"? If that's the case, then throw out Geneva because we have perma-escalation to pre-empting the pre-emptive pre-emptive.

    Hello, Hobbes and the nasty, brutish, and short uncivil-society.

    More fantasy

    The following statement is absurd. Every time Iraq complied with the requirements, the US changed the goal post.

    There were multiple resolutions, and Iraq was cooperating.

    The problem wasn't Iraq's compliance; but that the US couldn't trip-up Iraq. Despite no evidence, the US and UK unlawfully invaded Iraq.


    Fantasy


    A resolution was drafted and not complied with.


    The above just asks us to accept an RNC-version of rewritten history. Go ask George Orwell whether he's changed his name to George Bush.

    This is utter non-sense

    The US is asserting absurdity.

    The following statement incorrectly asserts, without proof, that there was "non-compliance."

    This has been proven to be an utter sham. The White House wanted to set up Iraq; and the US asserted, without proof, that there were problems.

    To date, the US has not been able to justify it's actions.


    White House-PNAC propaganda


    At the time any act of non-compliance had to be dealt with and Saddam Hussein did not comply with the resolution.


    The US has committed war crimes by unlawfully invading Iraq; there were no "non-compliance" issues. The Downing Street Memos show that the facts were fixed, as were the arguments for war, without regard to reality.

    Bush is an alleged war criminal and should be indicted. Let's hope Fitzgerald finds evidence before the fascists in the Senate get in his way.

    The diplomats were not allowed to work

    Bolton was sent in to discredit Brazilian inspectors. The inspectors were making progress, but the US defined them as "unreliable."

    Small problem: The US trained the inspectors at an UK FSO training center north of London.

    The following comment is just making light of a serious matter: war crimes.

    There was no basis to divert the discussion from war crimes to "diplomacy."



    Bolton had the diplomats fired


    What were we supposed to do? Send a diplomat in and ask pretty please?


    Notice they ask the question. It is open, they still have no answers. It is a diversion from the war crimes which Bush committed.

    Here's a clue: How about follow the laws of war. If the US truly "wanted to disarm" and "find out" what was going on, why didn't the US believe the information that was coming back?

    Answer: The US was ignoring the information. Scott Ritter has been proven correct. And Ambassador Wilson has been proven to be credible.

    Moreover, the CIA analysts have been shown to have been dissuaded; and now that they are speaking out, the US Government is going after those who dare speak of reality.

    How many other NonOfficial Covers in the US is the US government intimidating to be silent about the physics and chemistry that show the Iraqis were not an imminent threat.

    The 45-minute reaction number left out many steps, but that number was repeated by MI6 in operation mass appeal.

    Illusory problems

    The following quote incorrectly asserts that the Iraqis failed to comply. This is a ruse.

    The US kept changing the standards.

    The facts were fixed; and the US had planned to invade so long as the inspectors could be discredited.


    War crimes


    Pakistan complied with our requests, Libya complied, and Iraq didn't.


    Libya didn't respond to military threats. Libya had already been working with the US priority to the Iraq invasion to gain commercial benefits.

    Libya wasn't worried about an invasion, as much as it needed commercial ventures to turn itself around.

    Beginning of the story

    War crimes, indictments, false statements to congress, impeachment, and jail time for the fascists in DoD and the US military and JTTF/DOJ who are committing war crimes; have detained an tortured people; and who engaged in violations of the US constitution both at home and abroad.



    Denial


    End of Story.
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Co...4yqqnr.asp? pg=1



    You're dreaming. This President is in serious trouble.

    There's so much non-sense floating around, how does the RNC keep track of it all? They have no answer.

    The RNC is living in denial. This story hasn't even started.

    Think Nuremburg. Think Fitzgerald and the Grand Jury getting more evidence.



    Original Comment


    As the resident "scum-publican" that replies here, I am shocked and appalled that the Blue Star Mothers of America would respond in this way.

    It is a mistake to attach this event however to the Bush administration as it would be inappropriate for me to attach any of you to any leftist organization and say that any appalling thing they do you are responsible for.

    I have to say however that there are specific ties to 9/11 that Iraq has, and the point of the Iraq war was to disarm known hostile countries in the Middle East of any potential weapons they have been known to have. A resolution was drafted and not complied with. At the time any act of non-compliance had to be dealt with and Saddam Hussein did not comply with the resolution. What were we supposed to do? Send a diplomat in and ask pretty please? Pakastan complied with our requests, Libya complied, and Iraq didn't. End of Story.
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Co...4yqqnr.asp? pg=1


    You sound like you're still not quite convinced.

    Feel free to to get a better version of your talking points from the professional trolls. They are paid quite well by the RNC.

    Steve graciously responds

    Hello, Steve!

    Thank you for your kind remarks. I have carefully reviewed your point about "not providing a link." You are correct.

    You have one link, and I have none.

    However, my only "link" I can provide is the Downing Street Memo: Which is the basis for my concern.

    In my view, the Downing Street Memo is the core problem for the arguments related to war.

    In my view, you make a strong case for the war. You do a good job at outlining the reasons for war. And you do a fine job at explaining very clearly why the war was needed.

    However, in light of the Downing Street Memo, I'm somewhat concerned.

    My primary concern is that if the facts are fixed, then I'm not clear that the reason for war was truly for an "imminent threat." Granted, reasonable people point to the well placed concern that Saddam had an ongoing program and that the WMD was moved out of the country.

    Indeed, we are remiss if we do not take action to defend America. We cannot afford to be surprised.

    Yet, the Downing Street Memo makes me concerned. Because when I read into the details, I discovered that the 45-minute number from David Kelly missed many steps. And that the 45-minute number missed many things.

    The Downing Street Memo also gave me pause, because I wondered, "What facts were fixed."

    Then I read about the pressure by Bolton put on the Brazilian, and I thought to myself, "Why would someone want to dissuade a report form a chemical inspector?"

    Let's pretend that all that I've said above is false and has no support. Here's my problem.

    You sound like you have made your points well. There is some concern. At this point, you have beaten me. I have no link to point to.

    That's my problem. Just as the President spoke to us about the need to act, so too do I share that concern. We need to act to defend America. We need to do the right thing.

    And that's why I support you in speaking out. For me to be able to give you a link, I need to be able to link to something besides the Downing Street Memo.

    I can't do that. That's why I want to know what really happened.

    That's why I support you in speaking out. We need to know the answers. That way, if there's an inquiry and I am wrong, I can provide a link from my site and say, "Steve, the only link I can point to is one that says I am wrong."

    Right now, I have nothing except Steve's link.

    I'm willing to link to something from an inquiry, but there isn't one.


    Steve's #2 Comment


    The link


    Wow, I have to say I am utterly flattered by your reply to my Friday post and the incredibly thorough breakdown of my words and your "defeat" of them.

    If we are trying to establish who was using facts and who wasn't between your reply and my original post, I am afraid your reply has as much if not more speculation than mine. My original reply has supplied links documenting my claim and yours just has your words so I am afraid mine would appear more factual at the moment.

    Let's also get one more thing straight. There will be no grand jury or impeachment of Bush. Why? Because it's a waste of time. In using military action to defend a country it is hardly practice or plausible to convene a grand jury. I mean, it wasn't like Bush lied under oath or anything, right? (sorry couldn't resist the Clinton gag)

    I hope you get some nice reaction to your blog-ply of my post. It won't change anything.


    You are correct, my blog will not change anything. No one actually reads this blog. It is one of those dormant blogs that is at the edge of the blogosphere. I'm not even sure that's its listed anywhere.

    And you are also correct in that it is a waste of our time to debate issues when we have no facts. That is why I have decided to listen to you. You make succinct arguments. And you are also stating your position well. You sound like you have your arguments well placed. That shows you have thought alot about this.

    My problem is that I have no facts. That's why I need more information. But where do I go?

    The only thing I need is something that will back up what actually happened.

    You are correct that there will be no impeachment of Bush. Because the RNC controls all three branches of government. And as you well know, the only way that the President can be impeached is if the House Judiciary Committee acts. That will never happen.

    But there is the Fitzgerald grand jury that is going on.
    But we don't know what the Grand Jury is looking at. I believe that the questions surrounding Rove and Plame are touching on things related to the decision to go to war.

    Here's where I am puzzled. I also believe that the decision to go to war is creeping into the Grand Jury.

    In order to show why the White House either did or did not smear Plame; or [was/was not] reasonable in their statements about Wilson, there has to be some review of [a] comparing what the President said about WMD ; vs [b] what Wilson did find when he was acting in the investigator-review capacity before he read the editorial.

    I suspect the real target of the Fitzgerald effort to jail Plame is the evidence of "why we need to look at the legal foundations for war".

    Thus, my conclusion is that the real target of the Fitzgerald Grand Jury is the President. I also suspect that the President knows this, as evidenced by the hiring of a criminal defense lawyer named SHORT.

    That is why, in the absence of a formal inquiry, I believe that Fitzgerald is going to do what I have asked for above: Look into the Downing Street Memo and the legal foundation for war and compare what Bush said to what was actually in the Wilson memo.

    Then I will be able to point to a link and say, "Steve, you were right. The President has no problem. There's nothing to worry about. And we can go on."

    But there's one small problem. I don't have that link that you have asked for. So I am stuck.

    You have made a good case for why the war was waged. The small problem I have is, in light of the Downing Street Memo, I am not clear what real threat there was at the time.

    As you well know, we can only protect the country if we take action to defend ourselves. We shall never ask for permission to defend ourselves against anyone.

    But if we are taking action that is not lawful, then we only inspire others to do things that "justify in their mind" doing things to the US.

    I cannot speak for them, or their cause. But perhaps you have a suggestion on how the US can defend itself, and stay within the bounds of the law, while at the same time doing nothing to provoke those who, in response to our actions, feel justified in waging war.

    We cannot defeat the enemy that uses its defeat as a catalyst for more. They do appear crazy.

    But, at the same time, the Downing Street Memo makes me wonder: If we didn't lawfully do what we have done, are those who stand up to unlawful war justified?

    Perhaps you have some thoughts.

    My main concern that when the military is used to defend the country, that defense must be based on lawful reasons. Clearly, if the defense is needed, then there is no need to ask for permission.

    But Iraq is different. That is offense. Perhaps it was a gathering threat. Perhaps the WMD were moved. Maybe there were programs that were about to become a problem.

    But the problem is: The rules at the time said an imminent threat. I don't see it. All I can point to is the resignation of the Downing Street Attorney General who said the war was a war of aggression.

    If the Downing Street Memo is to be believed [and that is something that is up in the air, and needs an inquiry to ask], then there is a problem: The President has taken action without there being an imminent threat.

    We don't ask for permission to defend. Ever.

    But we also don't have the right to make up things to justify an invasion. Even if we are doing for "good reasons." The laws, as they existed at the time, were clear.

    Now, if the law needs to change. I'm for that.

    But we didn't do that.

    That's the problem I have. The rule of law and the military are there to protect our constitution and way of life.

    Our "way of life" is the rule of law and Constitution. If we take action that is outside that rule of law, then we are not better than those we fight.

    We should rise above their example, and meet our standards.

    We should not use their conduct as an excuse to lower ourselves.

    The UN Charter through Article VI of the US Constitution makes the Geneva Conventions and UN Charter "laws of the land."

    You are correct that as Commander in Chief of the Armed forces, the President is responsible for defending the nation. And he is obligated to act. Even when the storm is gathering.

    But if that storm is not actually there, and he knows it, and has taken action to silence those who told him there was no real problem, then he needs to explain:

  • What is the basis for his reorganization efforts of the CIA/

    There are many things that have not been looked into. That's why I would like there to be an inquiry to the Downing Street Memo.

    In turn, I suspect that Fitzgerald, because of the Plame-WMD-Iraq-Wilson issue, is rubbing up against this.

    The issue is: Will the reasonable request for "finding facts" so that I can provide a link, be satisfied by Fitzgerald?

    I think the answer is yes. That's why I think the President needs more people like you speaking out so that we get to the bottom of this.

    If we have an inquiry, I can give you a link. At this point, it's up in the air.

    So don't let anyone back you into a corner. Let them know that you're doing a good job at explaining the President's position. And that your job is to remember that if they lash out at you, it is just them not being able to meet the standards that they expect of others.

    That is not right. It is not fair. And it is simply doing things to you that nobody should put up with, even if they are wrong. Here's a list of things that mean people do to Steve that really makes me upset.

    Nobody does anything to support their cause when they are rude to you, especially when you have been very polite. You have simply used the information available to all to arrive at reasonable conclusions and making decisions that are in the national security interests of the country.

    The issue appears that they do not like your reasonable conclusions. That is their problem. SO don't let them ruffle you up. And don't take it personally.

    Encourage them to provide you with links. And encourage them to have answers with a formal inquiry. More evidence is on the way with the Grand Jury.

    Then we'll be able to make a decision about whether we really have all the facts. As you well know, we're not there yet and can only speculate.

    Read more . . .

  • Iraq: More transforming questions needed

    What does green taste like?

    Sometimes you need to change the question. It will give you a different perspective.

    I've been reading the comments about a veteran's mother who was ridiculed for speaking out against the war.

    A couple of thoughts came to mind:

  • A. "Other than talk about it, or get annoyed . . . what are you going to do about it?"

  • B. "OK, so a lady whose son is in the military got chewed out for speaking out against an unlawful war of aggression. OK . . ."

  • C. "The war mongers have shown that they're jerks. This thread reminds me of this comment: I sense many words, but little dialog or interaction; nor a desire to really see things from "the other view."

  • D> "The response to the lady reminds me of brownshirts when people dare speak their mind and are ridiculed with derogatory information, and nothing helpful."

    But then I thought, you know: Those really aren't all that helpful. So then I got to think about another approach.

    Abortion

    If you look at the abortion debate, one thing both the pro-life and anti-abortion groups realized that they had in common was the goal of reducing teen pregnancy.

    Rather than argue over "pro or against abortion" they asked a new question:

  • "What can we do to reduce teen pregnancy?"

    It's not an adversarial question where one side wins or loses. It's a common approach to a shared challenge. They key is to find the challenge that moves everyone forward.

    That common question generates common solutions both groups can work together on. I think what's needed is a similar approach to the war.

    Need some more transforming questions

    Anyone got any ideas on what to do next about this "non-sense with the outrageous action taken against the mother speaking out against the war"?

    Here's an idea . . . Can we agree, whether we are for or against the war, that the "right thing" to do is to protect the troops . . . so let's get them some proper body and vehicle armor. The knights in the middle ages could do better than this!

  • "How do we ensure that we get enough body armor for our troops?"

  • "What can we do to better protect our troops?"

  • "What funding is needed to safeguard those in harms way?"

  • "What types of technology, production methods, or new acquisition approaches are needed in DoD that will address the shortfalls in body armor and equipment protection?"

    What can the RNC and DNC do together, regardless their position on the war to work together? Perhaps some like to argue more than they like to implement solutions. Is that the kind of leadership you want in either the RNC or DNC? If so, do nothing: You've got what you want.

    Maybe this will help to generate some solutions going forward: Here is the checklist that might be helpful when generating some questions.

    Sample questions

  • What can be done to end the war and bring the troops home safely?

  • How will the current situation be transformed into something that is secure?

  • What can the country do to provide vehicle and body armor?

    Other views

    If you don't like this approach, you are free to blog about an alternative. It is curious how people will smear based on illusory faults; and assert there has been a wrong; but they provide no evidence to justify their conclusions.

    OK, your comments are just that: Comments without anything of contribution. Let's hear something specific by way of some constructive criticism. If you like to criticise, without a constructive comment on what could be done better, people are less likely to care or respond to the criticism.

    Thought for the day

    A new phrase I cam across: "Paid troller." As in, "Get a real job, besides trolling, you paid troller."

    Getting paid to troll. Do you like your job? Someone says they pay people to troll. Have you ever heard of this?

    Read more . . .

  • Bolton: What do you propose to do?

    Nothing but Bush's calculus will stop a recess appointment.

    The big mystery is whether the Bolton nomination will become the "Bolton recess appointment."

    Does anyone know for certain? Sure, the President knows what he's going to do.

    Thus, the agenda has been set.

    The uncertainty is whether others are going to accept that it is the President who is going to decide what to do next. The President is either going to:

  • Listen to the Senators and not appoint Bolton;

  • Ignore the Senate and nominate Bolton.

  • Ignore the Senate and appoint Bolton;

    Keep in mind, Bush's goal isn't to please the Senate. So what is most likely for Bush?

  • Listen to the Senators and not appoint Bolton.

    This option implies that the President must listen to the minority. This is absurd. Bush still appointed Gonzalez despite a "less than overwhelming vote of support that was known" prior to the appointment.

  • Ignore the Senate and nominate Bolton.

    This option implies that despite the problems with Bolton that he'll still show how much he's "still in charge" and can get an appointment despite the opposition. Besides, it's a distraction from Rove. However, the risk that "Bolton might talk," is irrelevant as Bolton has already talked and there are "only" 36 Senators speaking out.

    Clearly, this option has already been taken. The issue is will Bush wait for a vote, or make an appointment.

  • Ignore the Senate and appoint Bolton.

    This option implies that the Bush Administration cannot get the debate to end; and that it will be unable to get Bolton. If you are the President, and you are confident you "have the vote," [despite the opposition] would you not make the Senate vote, especially when you control the Senate?

    The risk with this, is that there is not enough votes to end a Filibuster. But if there's a filibuster by "people you can smear for doing so," why is that a problem, if it distracts from your war crimes?

    Most probable

    I think Bush would most likely wait, not because he doesn't want to fill the spot. But because he wants to test the Senate leadership. Moreover, if he can get the DNC to "use filibusters now," then when it is more important to have a filibuster, the public will start getting tired of filibusters.

    Thee easy way is to make a recess appointment. The longer term pay off lies with exhausting the Senate and distracting attention.

    I will not be surprised either way. There are more benefits to not making a recess appointment. But we will have to see what "other issues" Bush doesn't want on the table.

    I think there's more benefit to getting the nomination voted on as that is a distraction fro Bush. I don't see much interest in actually responding to the request to have the NSA tapes as a condition of a vote.

    What DNC might do to prevent a recess appointment

    At this point I'm not clear what the Democrats could possibly do, other than Filibuster.

    Small problem: For there to be a filibuster, Congress has to be in session.

    Thus, I see nothing, but Bush's calculus, as stopping a recess appointment.

    Bush could very well do the opposite, not simply to piss off the Democrats, but to remind them that he's in charge, and even a threat of a filibuster is meaningless.

    Bush and Rove are known for surprises. It is most unexpected if there is no recess appointment; because then everyone will spend the entire recess saying, "The Bolton appointment is coming," and when it doesn't occur. . . that's more time away from Rove and Bush once Congress reconvenes.

    Or is the Senate saying that they're going to get distracted by Bolton and Roberts, and not pass the DoD appropriations bill?

    "Support the troops" then be the rallying cry to shut up the Democrats.

    Rest assured, the fascists in the DNC will go along with that one. For if they do otherwise, it will be more ammunition for the RNC in 2006.

    DNC is on the defensive on this and powerless; and the White House is pretending that it is desperate.

    Where's Osama?

    How about Fitzgerald?

    And what's up with Rove?

    Who cares: The public and Senate are already tired of reality. As is the DNC: Bush in the President.

    What's stopping the Senate from going after Fitzgerald for "taking too long" to look into a matter that the "DNC isn't cooperating on"? That charge is coming.

    yes, that accusation is absurd; all the more reason the RNC is going to make it. To make the DNC react, piss them off. This is how the RNC manipulates the DNC: By exhausting them, distracting them, and reminding the DNC that they can't do anything but react.

    This is how leaders manipulate the opposition to yield. And they will yield, for the DNC will be given bait that they "must react to," otherwise they will be shown to be inconsistent.

    This is how the RNC shifts the issue from "the lawlessness and abuses," onto those who dare spot reality. The DNC tries to do the same, but they are not convinced even when they are given what they ask for. Thus, we know that the DNC requests for action and responses are just as fleeting as that of the RNC.

    The choice is not between the RNC or DNC but between the Constitution and tyranny.

    The powerless in the DNC use tyrannical methods to create the illusion of discipline; but this in only tyranny.

    If you want to fight for the Constitution, you simply need to let the RNC and DNC battle it out. Then assert yourself against the winner: The RNC.

    Read more . . .

  • Are magicians hypocrites?

    Can we distinguish ourselves? Free minds notice; and they also can choose how to spend their time or what to focus on.

    Ask yourself whether those you surround yourself with are those who allow your to assert your mind, or impose standards on them that they may choose to impose on others.

    Long, long ago. . . in a blog not so far away . . .

    I learned a very valuable lesson. That when someone is emotionally involved in a decision or outcome, they may have a hard time seeing the truth, reading information, or simply staying objective.

    Lo and behold, today we learn the problem associated with someone being too close to the outcome or result.

    Here were a couple of key points that caught my eye:

  • How does one define "too close" and "how close" is "too close"

    QUOTE: Mr. White's relationship with key Republicans appears “too close for comfort."

  • Need for objectivity in times when we do not have perspective

    QUOTE: "Generally, someone like this would step down and recuse themselves," Miss Kaptur said. "It sounds like he had a lot of close connections to principals who are being investigatedted."

    Sometimes, when we get information, even though we think it says X, Y, or Z . . . a reaonable person, who is not involved could come to a different conclusion.

    Know that the problem of "objectivity" isn't something that is unique to a particular party; rather the problem is one of a conflict of interest.

    Those who have an agenda, and do not like the message, will cast those they want to discredit in an unfavorable light, even going so to as tho ignore other information; and take a step back and look at what the other views are.

    Youcredibilitydibilty when you point to those who have a "conflict" problem, but fail to see in house the same conflicts, standardsnndards, and selective arguments to justify outassociationscations, decisions, and results.

    There is a blending of truth and non-sense to justify decisions, even ones that are no different than the enemy you fight.]

    Observe

  • Can they stay on topic?

  • Do they yell or use bold language?

  • Why is "their pet project or issue" more worthy of consideration than your concern or question?

  • Why do they define what "others should or should not do"?

  • Why dissuading otehrs not to look at certain matters?

  • Is it a "distraction" or "manipulation" to not talk about distractions?

  • If the issue is a "reasonable risk to occur," why the reluctance to discuss it, much less have a back-up plan should it occur?

  • Is your future destinted?

  • Do they look at mortals as Gods?

    We have free choice and can change the future. No man is above the law, nor worthy of blind obedience.

    I remain unconvinced that someone can be asserted to have either wisdom or insight when they fall into the trap of asserting that the future is fixed.

    Plans are not alawys used. But they are good to have just in case.

    Notice who asks, then compells you to "not look" behind the curtain. Why not? Do they not belive that you are capable of using your time as you want?

    These are the people who say, "We know better," but do they?

    Those who assert "they are for the rule of law," should surely trust you to make your own decisions about what to read, how to spend your time, what is important, what is worthy of consideration.

    Perhaps they yell, and scream, then assert "the right choice," because they do not trust you to choose for yoruself how to spend your time, what to focus on.

    They like to meddle. Have they made poor choices in the past; and want to "protect others" from making the same "poor choices" as they?

    Look who thinks of the time they were afloat, perhaps longing for shore. A catapult does launch dreams, and it reminds us of what we have given up.

    The time is gone. Will they assume that all might do the same and fritter their time? They do not trust you to make your own choice. They seek to compel you to focus.

    What do they fear if you focus on what "they do not want you to consider"? They fear that you will be distracted from what they choose to define as "what you should or should not do."

    Trust yourself to choose for your own. Let those who wish to assert the "rigth choice," show by example that they can trust themselves to remain focused on what is most prudent.

    Ask whether they have demonstrated a willingness to be as open with "other views," as they require you to be of "their view of what is appropriate."

    Notice the contrast between the standard they apply to you; and the liberty they give to themself.

    Then notice what happens if you attempt to impose the same standard on them that they impose on you: Notice the accusations of "poor thinking", to which they refuse to accept for themselves.

    They have double standards; and they have double standards about which issues and standards are to be discussed.

    Call it what it is hypocrisy and a lack of credibility.

    Other views

    Will you dare to apply your insights to other situations?

    Sometimes trash stays and sticks where it not only belongs, but where it is best kept and serves its most useful purpose.

    Read more . . .

  • Friday, July 29, 2005

    Doug, Good luck!

    All,

    Feel free to post this link in the ConyersBlog so that others might have the opportunity to discuss.

    Reasonable people can come to opposite conclusions. The issue is, what's a reasonable way forward. I've outlined my comments and suggestions in the links below.

    Feel free to take your time in reviewing the comments. There are other conversations going on besides the ConyersBlog.

    If you don't take a step back and look at the larger issues, you may miss out something very important needed to ensure your success.



    Congressman Conyers eloquently stated that bloggers are known for their independence:
    Bloggers are not subject to corporate constraints or concerns, and have shown their independence over and over.


    I'm not asking you to agree or disagree with others views. I'm asking that others take a broader perspective on the issues:

  • Are we truly looking at the communication with an open mind?

  • Are we using the information we've been given?

  • How can we move forward with a wider solution?

  • Other questions

    It is curious we are asked to "not defend" conclusions that seem reasonable, however unpopular. It is important to preserve the free exchange of ideas; not find excuses to ignore or discredit those who articulate themselves in unfamiliar ways.

    Your opponent is not going to agree with you or seem familiar. Get used to that. I suspect you will use their planned surprises as an excuse to distance yourself, when the correct approach should be to simply listen.

    You don't listen. You conclude without an open mind. And then you distance yourself from those who you do not agree with.

    The dance is over. I will not move to that tune.

    I take exception to anyone that, because we might come to a different conclusion, that somehow their "thinking" is called into question.

    I'm sensing there's some common ground, but I see a firm position from some. I can't make others move if they don't want to.

    As far as the particular comments about what is driving a particular concern: There's alot going on besides the issues you see written in the blog. I can't help you with the larger picture. That's something you'll have to figure out on your own.

    As to your specific comment, I can't help you with this comment. See exhibit 2 in this post. There's a reasonable "other view" of the matter. Some want to see it in a negative light. That's fine; but others don't see it as a problem.

    Rather it's the reaction of the Admin that seems peculiar. I'm not asking anyone to agree with the views or conclusions; I'm simply asking that others look at things from the perspective of, "This is how some are viewing the matters."

    If those reasonable perspectives want to be dismissed without consideration, or scoffed off as being the fruit of some sort of "inappropriate perspective" or "less than optimal confluence of events," in my view that is the core issue behind things. Some are asserting that the "conclusions of others" can only be correct if they fall within a set number of criteria. Recall, this is the same approach the RNC took to those who spoke out about the WMD issues and the Iraq invasion.

    Again, I'm not saying that the scope of the issues is the same. But I do sense an unusual comparison between how some are quick to assert "they in the RNC are doing something inappropriately by demanding X, Y, Z standards be met;" all the while from my perspective I see the same thing going in how the issues are being framed and discussed on the ConyersBlog: "If you don't agree with this conclusion, then you are wacky" is not the way I think all necessarily would subscribe to.

    If people want to argue over "what an if-then" statement means, then you're not making any headway. It's a credibility issue with how one would read a fair comment. The full problem is outlined here. I can't help people if they want to skim over the material, take it as a personal attack, or scoff off the material as if it were the fruit of "someone they no longer want to have confidence in." I let the words stand on their own.

    To the extent that my "personal reputation" or "my precedent" is or isn't consistent, is irrelevant. Simply take the words, as they are, without regard to what was said in the past; and look at them simply from the perspective of what do the words as they are before you say." Again, I'm not asking you or anyone agree or disagree; simply accept that someone else has another view.

    But at this juncture, it appears as though "my valid concerns," are being dismissed not because of the writing, but because of a characterization about the author and "whether one is or is not" of a particular frame of mind. That is irrelevant. Simply take the words as they are, review them, and accept that as they are. Again, whether you are agree or disagree isn't the issue. The issue is to what extent the community so quickly rejects with such asserted statements and tight deadlines X, Y, Z conditions without taking the time to look at the matter from someone else's perspective.

    Don't ask me to "not say" what I am seeing on the basis of "that is defending someone." On the contrary, I've though long and hard about these issues and carefully put down in writing how I came to the conclusion. If you have another view after reading the entire body of works, the links, and carefully let them sink in, maybe we can have a discussion.

    But at this juncture, if the public can expect nothing more than more of the "oh, you don't understand" or "that is not the right thing," I can assure you that that isn't going to work. I've reviewed the caselaw, the standards of evidence, and the jury instructions for that cause of action.

    If you prefer to ignore those criteria, I accept that. But, if you want to at least consider the possibility that there is another conclusion that is linked with something that resembles a careful consideration of the facts, caselaw, jury instructions, then you can review what I said.

    Again, I'm not asking you to agree or disagree. I'm asking that you consider that someone after reviewing just the text and comparing it to the existing statutes could reasonably come to a different conclusion. If you or others wish to discuss the nuances in the caselaw, that is fine; but if the conversation going forward is going to be more of the "oh, how could you conclude that" after I've carefully laid out the conclusions in detail, then we're not going anywhere.

    At this juncture, I have heard nothing from Admin. Nor have I had a satisfactory response to the small matter I attempted to speak to them about. To no avail. I cannot help them with their communication problem. All I can do is share with the blogosphere that there is an issue. I am not one to continue to "ask permission" when the response is nothing. We have time limits, deadlines, and cut off points, which I think you can appreciate.

    As to the particular issues that I have raised, I did point out my concerns. I have heard nothing. I cannot make others discuss the issues. If you wish to post more links in the Conyers Blog, or others do from my blog, that is fine. But if my content is going to get changed, or links added that is when I'm going to say something. Yet, I hear nothing back. So, I must assert; yet that gets no response.

    Indeed, despite all that, we're still waiting for admin to resolve this problematic link. Do you have an update on that?

    I can't make people cooperate who do not wish to cooperate. The fine bloggers on the ConyersBlog need to do what is best for them. I cannot make them read or not read what they want to review. Clearly, it is up for them to decide how they want to interpret the rules, whether they are being appropriately enforced.

    We're at a cross road. And time is ticking. The decision is: I have no plans to post on the ConyersBlog, and there are others who are pulling out as well, see Exhibit 14.

    Let the blogosphere decide which version they want. This is no different than the smear job on Durbin; but this time the DSM/DNC is doing it to their own.

    That's what's wacky about it. Let the blogosphere know: Things are getting a little strange on the ConyersBlog. I have a sense that the posters aren't getting the "full story" what Admin is doing.

    It is curious what people do when they can't win an argument: Stoop down and question other's mental capacity. Thank you, for showing that your arguments are not persuasive to me. You have kindly admitted defeat, and are now doing what the RNC does: Smearing others, asserting conclusions, and not looking at the other views.

    No need to spend your time talking about what is in the "other articles" when it appears you have not taken the time to consider the other views of "original offending post." A plain reading of those would can lead some to a different conclusion.

    Thus, my original concerns here have been confirmed, and I remain convinced the momentum is going in the wrong direction.

    I am not of the DNC or DSM. I am a right wing conservative hawk.

    As a Republican, I can assure that they are likely going to win, not because they deserve it or are lawful, but because the Republicans have opponents that will not listen, even when the answer is given them on a plate as I have done.

    You have been given everything you need to defeat them, and have thrown it back with innuendo. That is not appropriate.

    You are foolish and deserve to be defeated. Not because your cause is lacking, but merely to prove a point: That foolish people, when they do not listen, deserve to have their nose rubbed in their errors.

    Perhaps then, you will awaken. I shall not wait for you or others to awaken from your coma. It is unfortunate that it must get far stinkier and the reality rubbed in far too many people's faces for the sufficient catalyst to occur.

    This is actually happening: They are planning to trash your Constitution.

    Going forward, we will no longer have contact as we wage this battle from different directions.

    Hoc Voluerunt!

    Read more . . .

  • Bolton's ~didn't recall~ is something for the court to examine

    Authority

    249 F.3d 614.[7th App.]

    A reasonable grand jury could find that the "lack of recollection" is not credible.When asserting one does "not recall" something is not necessarily of any value.

    For the court can review the matter and ask whether it is reasonable that someone "did not recall" something.

    One cannot feign ignorance of something that is reasonably be expected to have been recallable.

    You cannot claim ignorance where it is more likely that that ignorance and "lack of recollection is not believable."

    Thus, it is a matter of law for the court to decide, and not a premise to assert as fact, on whether Bolton has lied or feigned "lack of recollection" over something that would seem to be very clear.

    Let us recall what happens when one goes before an investigative body:

  • They consult lawyers

  • They review notes

  • They practice

  • They review the likely questions

  • They are under alot of public pressure

    It less believable that "he couldn't remember" something when it is very significant.

    It is more likely that there is a cast of enablers asserting "it is true" that he doesn't believe.

    These are matters for the grand jury to decide. What the public is or isn't told is part of the ruse.

    IT is reasonable to question whether Bolton's "lack of recollection" are credible. We also don't know "what other information" the Grand Jury has that would raise further doubts about Bolton, or spark an investigation for perjury.

    We don't know. That is reasonable.

    But it is not reasonable for such a man to have so much power, and not remember.

    We don't need people in high positions of office who, when asked to serve, cannot remember important things.

    If we want forgetful people, we need only keep what we currently have: People who forget the laws that are clear; and are unable to lead when given the responsibility.

  • Read more . . .

    ConyersBlog Admin allegedly defames blogger -- The implications and oversight needed

    Authority

    Hatfill v. NYT, No. 04-2561

    Overview

    It's a problem when someone is accused of a crime. But it's a larger problem when the person making the allegation allegedly has no legal foundation. They expose them to litigation over matters of defamation.

    Congressman Conyers' blog needs some attention. Things are getting interesting on the blog. It looks like someone has made accusations about criminal conduct but there remains no legal foundation for that accusation.

    There are real litigation risks which the Congressman should be aware. We outline our concerns and make some general comments so that the blogosphere might assess the situation for themselves.

    Disclaimer

    The information below is not legal advice. It is a personal opinion. The information is intended to be general in nature for purposes of contributing to a worldwide public discussion on blogging.

    You should consult with a licensed attorney with the American Bar Association before taking action. You are advised to seek counsel.

    Introduction

    The ConyersBlog Admin has allegedly accused someone of a crime. Normally, when there is no actual conviction, one could review the matter and reasonably conclude that the ConyersBlog Admin has allegedly defamed another specific individual.

  • 17 USC 107 outlines that there are exceptions based on the purpose and character of use

  • See Exhibit 10 at this link for the alleged defamation.

  • Educational fair use exception to copyright law is mentioned here over 650,000 times.

  • See Exhibit 9 at this link for a copy of the posting, to include the date time group.

  • See Exhibit 14 at this link which suggests the number of bans is much larger than publicly admitted.

  • See this link for criteria to use to evaluate public comments and their contribution to a more civil society.

    Fair use is defined under the statute as:
    fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.
    In light of this standard, we argue that this particular work copied onto the ConyersBlog fits the definition of "fair use" in that it:

  • Is educational;

  • Can be copied in full because it is for a non-profit use;

  • The objective of the full copy was to provide the full evidence requested for educational, discussion, and public comment in relationship to news, matters of public interest, and public debate on issues of significant public interest;

  • There was no commercial gain;

  • The entire work, as a single entity, was the object of the fair comment, discussion, and basis for a substantial public decision affecting many people on the floor of the House and Senate;

  • The use of the material did not affect the commercial value of the underlying work not interfere with the commercial profits of the source of the copyright;

  • The information was requested by the ConyersBlog Admin to make a substantial decision; and

  • The entire work had to be considered, presented, and placed before the blogosphere and ConyersBlog Admin without any links so that the entire work could be reviewed as a single item within the blog for purposes of comment, criticism, debate, education

  • The objective of public debate, criticism, research, and education is substantially supported when work remains in tact and in the future there could be no claim that the "link didn't work", ensuring the blogosphere can understand the full scope of issues within the original work which precipitated the reasonable public comments, criticism, news, and education.

    Based the above arguments and a plain reading of the statute, we believe that the court would ultimately decide that the use of the material in full was not only fair, but that the ConyersBlog Admin inappropriately asserted that the blogger had violated the copyright law. Thus, we believe it is more likely than not, that should a cause of action for defamation in accusing someone of a crime would prevail.

    However, it remains a matter of law whether any cause of action is brought; or whether the court will recognize any remedy when a blogger is not specified by a "real name," as opposed to their sign in name.

    Regardless the opinion of the court, we would hope that the ConyersBlog and Congressman Conyers take a moment to reflect on the conduct of the ConyersBlog Admin. By accusing someone of violating the copyright laws when there is a reasonable exception and "fair use" of copyrighted material, the ConyersBlog Admin casts themselves in an unfavorable light. This does not reflect well on either the ConyersBlog, Conyers Re-election Campaign effort, or Congressman Conyers.

    Discussion

    The purpose of this note is to outline the specific allegations that have been made and outline the specific problems we see.

    This is not to be taken as legal advice nor as a formal legal opinion. Rather, the comments below are general in nature, intended for a wide audience, and are intended to state a personal opinion of the facts as we know them.

    Clearly, there are many other mitigating factors which through discovery may be understood. However, all we have at this juncture are the public comments. Indeed, it is troubling that even attempts to privately discuss this matter have proven fruitless.

    The ConyersBlog Admin has been unresponsive to attempts to discuss the various issues, concerns, or other general and benign issues related to blogging, registration, or how to log into the ConyersBlog.

    Going forward, we hope to outline the specific allegations that appear to be credible; and formulate a series of recommendations that the blogging community and/or Congressman Conyers may choose to take as "informal feedback". Whether anyone does or doesn't take this input is of no consequence. We feel it is appropriate to outline our perspective of the matter so that others may be in a position to assess for themselves to what extent, inter alia:

  • The ConyersBlog is meeting your objectives;

  • The ConyersBlog Admin is professionally representing Congressman Conyers;

  • The public can be assured that the membership rules are uniformly, consistently, and reasonably enforced;

  • The ConyersBlog is a suitable forum for civil discourse, dialog, and spirited debate of all political persuasion;

  • The ConyersBlog remains a viable platform to rally others to assert the rule of law over what is arguably a reckless White House.

    At this juncture, these are open-ended questions. However, we remain concerned that the method by which the ConyersBlog Admin interacts with opposing views, that the ConyersBlog is beginning to not only act as a distraction from the overall objective of a uniform assertion of the rule of law over the White House, but that it runs the risk of becoming a counterproductive force in that effort.

    At best, the environment is combative which could be expected of any spirited debate and is welcome as a source of feedback on the state of the blogosphere ether. However, at worst, the ConyersBlog Admin has essentially given a green light to engage in the very abuses to which this nation's leadership has been asserted to have violated.

    That is problematic. In our view, it needs to either end, or there needs to be a cooling off period by which the pattern of conduct is reviewed and there is a change in oversight procedures. Whether this means that the ConyersBlog Admin loses some independence, or that the decisions of the ConyersBlog Admin are personally reviewed by a staff attorney remains matter for Congressman Conyers to decide.

    Regardless the way forward, our goal is to outline our perceptions of where things are, and provide public notice for all who are interested of "where things appear to be." Indeed, the way forward is not clear. But we do offer some suggestions and by no means expect that any or all of the recommendation will be immediately implemented.

    Regardless the subsequent adjustments, if any, it is our goal to give fair warning to all who may seek to interact on the ConyersBlog what environment you may encounter and what options you may wish to consider before deciding to register. In turn it is our goal that the recommendations below serve as a starting point for a discussion on what would need to occur to appropriately improve the functioning of the ConyersBlog.

    Allegations

    1. We allege that the ConyersBlog Admin has defamed another blogger by accusing them publicly of a crime of copyright infringement.

    2. Copyright laws permit fair use for educational purposes.

    3. ConyersBlog Admin requested specific information from a blogger.

    4. Requesting information publicly would reasonably be inferred to mean that a "request for education" has been initiated.

    5. A plain language interpretation of the copyright laws could infer that the compliance with this request for education falls within the education exception of the fair use doctrine.

    6. The blogger provided a full copy of the requested material. This material was specific, substantially complied with the request for information. And the posting was done in a noncommercial setting, in a public forum, for purposes of education.

    7. By posting the material in on a publicly accessible blog, we allege that the posting is fair use in that it is for educational purposes.

    8. We are concerned that, upon complying with the request for education, the ConyersBlog Admin then used that compliance with a demand to then accuse the blogger of violating the copyright rules.

    9. We allege that the information posted was never read.

    10. We further allege that, had the full contents of the educational material been read, that the ConyersBlog Admin would have realized there was a reasonable basis for the statements being made.

    11. We allege that the ConyersBlog Admin was not serious about getting any "proof," but that this was merely an orchestrated ruse to further annoy, harass, demand, humiliate, and otherwise annoy someone who simply had another view.

    12. We allege that the allegation of "committing a copyright violation" was not protected; was made in bad faith; and substantially ignored the "fair use" exception of the copy right.

    13. Further, we allege that the ConyersBlog Admin has substantially shown that they are in need of close oversight, training on the various copyright, personal privacy statutes, and issues related to the 1st Amendment related to slander, libel, defamation, public figures, malice, and other terminology in the ConyersBlog registration.

    Discussion

    We find it absurd that the ConyersBlog Admin has demonstrated a poor understanding of the copyright laws. There is no evidence before us that the ConyersBlog Admin understands the exceptions to the copyright laws, can see that a request for "full information" or "proof" would not constitute a request for education.

    At this point, in our personal opinion, it is clear the following occurred:

  • A. ConyersBlog Admin demanded information and a request for education

  • B. The blogger provided that information and education

  • C. The education is an exception to the copyright laws as a "fair use" for education, research, and support of public discussion in a non-commercial arena.

  • D. The ConyersBlog Admin has asserted, incorrectly, that providing full text articles is a violation of the copyright laws, and has shown no capacity to include exceptions of the "fair use" or "education" exception of those doctrines.

  • E. ConyersBlog Admin has no basis to assert that there has been a "violation" of the copyright laws; or that a specific individual has "violated" the copyright laws when the "fair use educational exception" is considered.

  • F. ConyersBlog Admin asked for, and received education; yet then asserts that a compliance with a reasonable request for information is then a violation of the statutes which permit the very education sought.

  • G. ConyersBlog Admin has demonstrated nothing to warrant any substantial belief that they read what was asked for

  • H. ConyersBlog Admin ignored the fair use exception to the copyright laws; and subsequently used a "full attempt to comply with a request for education" as further "evidence" to "justify" banning someone and is an unreasonable basis to ban someone.

  • I. We alleged that the ConyersBlog Admin defamed a blogger by asserting without qualification that they had committed a crime.

  • J. The comments are not protected, qualified, privileged and there is no defense to making such accusations.

  • K. It appears the ConyersBlog Admin has been held responsible to enforce board discipline without understanding the exceptions to the copyright laws, fair use doctrines, or what constitutes a "fair comment" or "personal opinion" by someone about a matter of public importance or public figures.

  • L. We allege that ConyersBlog Admin is liable for damages to the blogger for having defamed them. In cases where the person is not specifically identified, this becomes a problem; but in this case, the party accused of "having committed a crime" is a specific individual, with a specific IP and sign-in name. It remains to be understood how this IP is used, transmitted, or what action has subsequently been taken.

  • M. Based on information and belief we allege that the bannings and IP blocking is not isolated and that there are a number of other people who have been inappropriately banned. It remains a matter of discovery to determine how these IP numbers were subsequently transmitted to "anti-spam" websites, or how the identifying information has been used to allegedly further harass, annoy, and otherwise interfere with reasonable attempts to communicate other views on either the ConyersBlog or other forums.

    Going forward

    The above conduct warrants outside review, public commentary, and some general discussion on what other conduct do people observe.

    We encourage the public to spiritly discuss the issues:

  • Is this kind of treatment what you want to be around

  • What remedies and improvements are needed

  • How will the Downing Street Memo coalition be served or undermined by this conduct

  • Are closer oversight policies required by Congressman Conyers

  • Does a staff attorney on a random basis need to visit the ConyersBlog and provide some legal advice to the ConyersBlog Admin in properly monitoring the board

  • Should detailed instructions and policies be generated to guide the ConyersBlog Admin to effectively manage the ConyersBlog

  • What training should the ConyersBlog Admin have in the areas of copyright law, personal privacy, the 1st Amendment, slander, libel, defamation, public figures, malice, and recklessness

  • How effective is the training plan in place

  • What public forums or discussions on the ConyersBlog would serve as an outlet to discuss the issues related to the membership agreement

  • Do the members when the confirm they will comply with the membership agreement really understand the terms

  • If there are allegations of misconduct, do the members who join in with those accusations understand their role in shunning someone who is making reasonable comments

  • What methods, oversight, or other reviews could be instituted to ensure that the bloggers, ConyersBlog Admin and blogosphere better understand the terms of interaction

  • What can be done to refocus the efforts of the blog on matters substantially related to objectives of Congressman Conyers

  • What is needed to focus the efforts of the blog on matters related to substantially important issues like the Downing Street Memo, House Judiciary Committee agendas, possibility of impeachment and war crimes charges to be brought against the White House civil servants.

    Recommendations

    The above list is not intended to be exhaustive. Rather, the list is intended to focus the debate on something that will mobilze some action and discussion on a way forward. We make no claim that the above issues are necessarily appropriate nor immediately answerable.

    Rather, our goal is to share our perspective and provide a rather loose "way forward" while the country is focused on rather important issues.

    It is our concern that unless there is a period of reflection, close monitoring, and active blog-intervention, that the blog in its present course will simply contribute to more of what is not desirable: Shunning people for opposing views; making accusations without legal foundation.

    In short, the ConyersBlog runs the risk, without appropriate remedies, of duplicating the abuses alleged to have been committed by the RNC: Double standards on rules, and ignoring inputs and feedback from those who dare disagree.

    When a group of people or single individual moves with the assumption that "they know best," we have seen that that can be disastrous in Iraq.

    Let us hope that "those who know best" understand that those who are making comments on the ConyersBlog do not necessarily know what they are talking about. They may, but they also may be saying things simply because someone has made an accusation.

    We would hope otherwise. For in the future, the test will be who can make the most credible argument in support of the rule of law; and which side can best couch their evidence to justify a conclusion per the jury instructions, caselaw, and other public standards of conduct.

    The time has arrived to embrace the principles we assert the RNC "should be" embracing:

  • Full debate

  • Open dialog

  • Asserting conclusions based on legal foundations and facts

  • Generating solutions

    We are concerned that the very criticism that many in the Downing Street Memo are asserting the RNC and PNAC are committing are now being slowly embraced as "acceptable" standards of conduct.

    If that is the case, then we reject that momentum. For if we are to defeat the enemy of the Constitution, then that enemy must be different than what we do.

    When there is a blurring of distinction between those who assert the rule of law and those who support tyranny, the answer is not to embrace tyrannical methods to rally others to your side.

    The world can see through that. The time for a correction is at hand. We outline several options the community way wish to consider.

    In the end, your conduct will be judged per the rule of law and to what extent you clearly assert in both word and conduct that you are for the rule of law and the Constitution; and at the same time rising above tyranny, not embracing its methods.

    Requests for Congressman Conyers to consider

    Given the weighty issues before the Congressman and matters of state on the agenda before the House Judiciary Committee, we have no reason to expect that the Congressman will actually read any of the comments below.

    Rather, we expect that the blogosphere will review the matters, and summarize tea comments for the Congressman. We outline in great detail what we believe is an appropriate way forward not to burden the Congressman with details, but to act as a general framework for the blogosphere and Congressman's staff to discuss and either concur or concur with alterations.

    Our goal is to outline a general framework with the full expectation that it be destroyed, and replaced with something far more responsive and appropriate. This is only a place to start and we welcome a spirited public discussion on what would be an appropriate way forward.

    Requests

    1. ConyersBlog Admin ["Admin"] should apologize to all bloggers on Congressman Conyers Blog for allegedly defaming a blogger;

    2. Admin shall cease and desist from allegedly defaming bloggers by accusing them of crimes;

    3. Admin shall receive training on all terms on the user member agreement for the ConyersBlog registration;

    4. Admin shall publicly discuss on a periodic, but frequent basis, reason for not reinstated or approving requests for membership;

    5. Admin shall reinstate all requests from bloggers after giving amnesty to all;

    6. All records related to IP numbers shall be destroyed;

    7. Congressman Conyers shall make a good faith effort to ensure that all IP numbers retained are appropriately secured, no longer kept, and there is a full accounting of how the IP numbers collected have been forwarded to third parties;

    8. Admin should be closely supervised by delivering to a qualified staff attorney a summary of all pending bans, reasons for bans, and have a clear showing that the basis for banning/action is consistent with a legally supportable action per the member agreements;

    9. The Staff attorney shall on a periodic basis assert in writing to Congressman Conyers and in the Blog that they have reviewed the Admin files using an appropriate sampling method and remain satisfied that the Admin remains [a] in compliance with the Blog policies; [b] up to date on the appropriate caselaw, and [c] understands the various definitions in the membership agreements.

    Note: One perspective on why it's important to have attorneys involved in matters of staff oversight here -- Attorneys, when they are involved, will take their job seriously; failing to take their duties seriously could have repurcussions. It's good to have responsive people involved in matters of public service.

    Summation

    It is our personal opinion that "Fair use" of copyright must take precedence over allegations of having violated a copyright; and that "fair use" includes specific situations where the ConyersBlog Admin has requested specific information. It is absurd to demand someone "prove" something, and then use "their proof" and attempt at education as then as a "foundation" to assert they have violated the law.

    Such conduct, if allowed to continue without comment, simply invites more absurdity to which this nation supposedly detests and fights when it seeks to assert the rule of law over a tyrant in the White House.

    If you want someone to do something, do not use their "compliance with that request" as the basis to then hammer them over the head with their contribution.

    Such as response not only invokes public outrage, but a complete rebuke for any and all future requests. In short, this is a credibility problem. We now can reasonably ask to what extent the "criteria" or "expected response" will not simply be used as a basis to further inflame, accuse, demand, and other wise distract attention.

    Most troubling is that there never existed any legal foundation to assert that anyone had committed an infraction; nor was there any real legal foundation to demand that anyone do or do not give a response to a request for additional information.

    If the above momentum is not addressed and managed, we fully expect to hear of further absurd abuses. The blogosphere should take note: Those who fight the tyrannical farmers on Animal Farm are no looking more like the farmer, and have less sympathy as a class in need of public support.

    Leadership is needed. We expect it. If you do not wish to demonstrate that, then you are no longer needed in the Downing Street Movement.

    Leaders lead, they do not abuse, and they ensure the support staff and volunteers are appropriately trained in civility not tyranny.

    To do otherwise, asks the world to embrace one tyrant over another.

    That is not an option.

    We choose the Constitution, rule of law, and civility.

    And we demand nothing less.

    Read more . . .

  • Thursday, July 28, 2005

    ConyersBlog Admin is marching down a dangerous path

    Reader tip: Link to allegation against ConyersBlog Admin here

    There's been some bantering about on the ConyersBlog about accusations of slander. Small problem: The correct cause of action would be libel; but given Congressman Conyers public figure status, I am not persuaded that the comments are reckless disregard for the truth.

    On the contrary, given the subsequent explanations, I am satisfied that the basis for the comment was a fair opinion, and a reasonable public comment related to a matter of public concern.

    The burden of proof, apology, and full costs for the result should be born by the ConyersBlog.

    Discussion

    The ConyersBlog Admin certainly is having some fun. Allegedly, someone has asserted that there has been slander. Going forward, it remains to be seen whether the ConyersBlog is serious about brining a cause of action; and what counter-claim, if any, is brought in the form of an Anti-Slapp claim.

    Before proceeding, you may wish to review this criteria, and the various jury instructions.

    The Details

    When someone wants to assert that there has been a wrong, there needs to be some probative evidence supporting that claim.

    Not only is there a requirement that the elements to the claim be proven, but that the claim be valid and that the party seeking a remedy must arrive with clean hands. Conyers Blog Admin has a problem. They are confusing written communications [libel] with spoken communications [slander].

    The other problem the ConyersBlog Admin has is that they are shifting the burden of proof from ConyersBlog [in brining a cause of action for alleged slander], and shifting the burden of proof onto the party that is making statements.

    This is contrary to the notion of jurisprudence. To succeed not only in the court room, but in the court of public opinion, one must ensure that the wrong is first proven before it can be remedied, not simply asserted.

    This is where the ConyersBlog Admin falls down. Congressman Conyers is a public figure, which means that to be successful in a cause of action [as the Admin threatens], the Congressman, not the Admin, must prove that he is not a public figure; and/or prove that the statements that the blogger has made were made with reckless disregard for the truth.

    But the facts before us suggest that this burden cannot be met. First, the asserted statements in no way specifically accuse anyone of committing a crime.

    Rather, the comments follow the Durbian If-then logic: If someone didn't say X, then we might assume Y.

    In this case, what the blogger has said was that if we have this statute, then those who are speaking about classified information, under the new hypothetical construct of the new statute, would then be subject to punishment.

    Nothing in the comments asserts that Congressman Conyers has or hasn't committed a crime.

    Rather, the blogger simply shows by way of historical reference to the Congressman's involvement in the Nixon-Watergate discussions that there is a reasonable public comment to be made.

    Specifically, the blogger asserts that if someone like Congressman Conyers wants to discuss classified information that is publicly known [that the Nixon Administration has classified for whatever reason], then the legislators would be subject to sanction.

    But what does this possible sanction do for the rule of law, open debate, and rights of legislators to publicly speak?

    If enforced, then the blogger correctly raises for the public to consider, "Are we not putting a restraint on public servants in discussing matters that are openly reported in the Washington Post?"

    I think the answer is: Yes.

    One method public officials use in discussing classified information is to point to an open source. Rather than say, "I heard this from the CIA. . . " the public servants will point to open sources like the WashingtonPost and say, "According to the WashingtonPost. . . " knowing full well that the WashingtonPost is correctly reporting they heard something in a classified briefing.

    I see nothing in the comments that rise to an accusation of a crime by the Congressman.

    Rather, what I do see is that the Admin has twisted the interpretation of the statement into a convenient conclusion that is contrary to the bloggers‘ interests.

    But let's consider how a jury works. They review the statements [evidence]; then the look at the jury instructions; evaluate which side has satisfied the elements; and then make a decision: What happened, and what list of jury instructions have been satisfied.

    When the jury reviews the matter, it doesn't matter what happened outside the courtroom. Rather, it matters whether one side is more or less capable in showing that the jury elements have been satisfied.

    On all counts, ConyersBlog fails.

    First, the jury instructions for slander specifically state that the cause of action must be related to a spoken statement. This does not apply. Thus, we need not consider any element in the jury instructions as to whether the statement was true or false.

    Second, let us suppose that by some divine hand of God, ConyersBlog Admin was magically able to deduce that the alleged slander was allegedly libel. Again, the jury instructions would show that the ConyersBlog Admin was wrong.

    On this count of libel, the jury instructions would clearly show that the ConyersBlog Admin has not successfully demonstrated that the Congressman is not a public figure and/or that the statements were made with reckless disregard for the truth.

    Rather, the statements alleged to have been "slander" are merely a reasonable conclusion. Moreover, the statements are about a public figure.

    Thus, on this count, the jury instructions would tend to illustrate that the written statements, being about a public figure, were not in reckless disregard for the truth.

    The point being is that the ConyersBlog Admin has no basis to assert that anyone has or hasn't said anything about the Congressman's specific actions.

    Rather, they've simply done what Senator Durbin has done: Use a theoretical construct; outlined how that construct if applied would result in an absurd outcome; and then used that outcome to show that the original assertion and proposed legislation or objective was flawed.

    This is called public dialog and discussion.

    It is reasonable.

    It is appropriate.

    And the matters are of extreme public importance. For these issues revolve around the First Amendment and the right of legislators to freely discuss information in the ether.

    How that information got into the either is a separate matter. For the blogger has not done anything to specifically assert that a public figure has or has not leaked information.

    Rather, all they've done is state that the public figure has spoken about classified information.

    Again, how the Public Figure gets that classified information, or whether that classified information is mention in a public-open source is a separate matter.

    Going forward

    The issue before us is what we can learn from this and what is going to happen next.

    There are two options. First, we can take away a simple lesson of 'what happens' when someone is given the responsibility to enforce standards, but not trained on the law.

    This lesson is important to notice. Because it shows, by way of analogy what happens when people are put into difficult situations, but not given adequate guidance. This is the problem we find when troops are sent into combat, but there are inadequate rules of engagement or procedures to deal with the laws of war.

    Thus, the first possible outcome is to shed some light on understanding why troops do or do not do strange things when they are put into stressful situations.

    The second option, and more difficult one is to consider the bantering back and forth and stir up the pot. This, I can assure you, is what the RNC wants.

    At this juncture, should ConyersBlog Admin choose the more direct method and actually engage in a lawful cause of action for slander, I can assure you that there is a reasonable counter claim to be brought for harassment and Anti-Slapp.

    But rather than go down that route, perhaps we might go down a middle course. The real problem is: Who is actually responsible for the blog admin's public accusations and who exercise control and responsibility for the legal actions?

    Either Congressman Conyers is in charge of his blog or he is not.

    At this point, regardless what he chooses [in control, not in control] the public discussion of these issues tends to undermine public confidence in his blog.

    First, if the Congressman is exercising control of his blog and Admin [even if it is a volunteer] then the Congressman is allowing the Admin to publicly assert an alleged tort [slander] which is unrelated to a credible allegation [libel] without giving any consideration to whether the test is against a public figure.

    Thus, to posture and threaten lawful remedies at this point are without merit, further undermining confidence in the ConyersBlog Admin.

    However, if the Congress wants to assert that he has no control over Admin and that Admin is not making statements that are legally dependable, and that there is no credible threat of litigation, then the Congressman has a larger problem.

    For at that juncture, the Congressman is admitting that despite the sign-in procedure and clear rules of behavior expected of bloggers, that the rules are not effectively understood by those who are charged with administering the blog.

    Let us make no mistake. I am not accusing Congressman Conyers or the Admin of engaging in any reckless behavior or crime.

    Rather, I am simply pointing out that the same accusations made against US troops [them engaging in violations of the standards] is apparently happening in less risky situations: Where there is poor leadership, lack of accountability, and a charge to "ensure discipline," those who are given the tasks, but not clear guidance are setting themselves up for a fall.

    Moreover, by allowing the rest of the blogging community to incorrectly conclude that there is or is not a basis to "demand an apology" on the basis of slander [which doesn't apply] simply shows how easily people can be spun up on the basis of an allegation.

    Again, let us not miss the point. Look how easily a group of people can be spun up, using allegations not the law, in order to go after someone that the controlling authorities choose to lash out against.

    Again, I'm not suggesting that the ConyersBlog or Congressman Conyers are engaged in a cover-up or smear effort.

    I am pointing to an illustration of easily the public, relying on faulty constructions of the law, can be inducted to point their finger at someone who simply is asserting their right to speak out.

    This is the same type of misconduct that the RNC engages in. And the public accusations based on non-sense constructions of the law is what is at the heart of the Downing Street Memo and the outrage at the RNC for their public smearing of Wilson and other CIA personnel.

    Going forward

    Use this incident as a lesson: Of how easily people can be influenced to point fingers; and what will happen when people are put into position of responsibility which they have not been adequately trained or supervised.

    Also, what needs to happen is the ConyersBlog Admin needs to get a better handle of what constitutes actionable claims per the membership agreement. I am not persuaded that they understand the issues related to public figures, malice, or the difference between slander and libel.

    Moreover, I would hope that Congressman Conyers recognize the potential legal liability he runs should the ConyersBlog Admin publicly assert a cause of action to which there is no legal foundation. It remains a matter of time to find out whether an accused party brings a cause of action for Anti-Slap, harassment, or libel against the Congressman, the Congressman Conyers campaign, and the to-be-identified ConyersBlog Admin.

    If you want to go down that route, I encourage you to ignore the above comments, continue with your accusations, and continue to ignore people who wish to discuss these issues in private.

    It might have simply been resolved had you allowed the public and those you disagree with to publicly discuss these issues, or privately send emails to encourage some civil discourse.

    But here we are. You have not responded to e-mails; and you are threatening legal action against those using causes of action which have no legal foundation.

    Your actions tend to undermine your cause; they bring discredit upon Congressman Conyers; and they invite a vote of no confidence from the blogging community.

    It is absurd to demand a public "apology" from a citizen. The real apology should come from the Congressman Conyers Campaign office that refuses to respond to e-mails and allows "volunteers" to threaten legal action for claims to which there is no merit.

    Will the public wake up? Probably not, because the public likes to rally to causes even when the real problem are those making the accusations.

    Make no mistake. This is the same as what happened in Animal Farm. Those who make accusations about the farmer, by the end of the book, had transformed into something else.

    By the end of Animal Farm, there was no difference between the Farmer and the Animals who were in charge. I see no difference between that outcome, and where this current non-sense is taking us: That those who accuse the RNC of wrong doing and smears, or violating standards because of poor training and leadership, are simply doing the same thing, but using the RNC tactics of smearing, accusations, and innuendo.

    Beware those who make accusations devoid of legal foundation. For then they will demand the world give them sympathy despite a credible threat of a counter claim for harassment, libel, and a violation of the Anti-Slapp statute.

    If you want to take this matter into court, I can assure you , you will lose, be mocked, and you will waste valuable resources.

    You have no credible claim to be brought against any blogger for slander. But if you want to fight this, I can assure you that there will be most likely a cause of action that will be treble damages and a prayer for relief from the court for all legal costs required with that counter claim.

    That is not a prudent use of the court, public, or ConyersBlog re-election efforts. But if that is how you want to use your time and effort, by all means bring it on.

    The world enjoys watching a powerful person implode. Especially when they could easily have resolved the matter with a simple response.

    Want a lawsuit? Keep it up. I can assure you, given your lack of discipline, public smearing, and outrageous accusations devoid of legal foundation that you are going to walk into a very big trap.

    I shall enjoy letting you fall in it, just as the RNC will do.

    The only difference is that the RNC will say nothing until you are caught. Those who want you to succeed are speaking out.

    Choose. Do you want to lead based on prudence and the rule of law.

    Or do you want to be tyrannical and make threats without legal foundation.

    Choose. You are either with the rule of law, or you are an arrogant tyrant.

    Choose wisely.

    Summation

    It is in appropriate to threaten litigation while ignoring both the law and what was actually said.

    You bring discredit upon your cause when you infer conclusions not specifically stated. Moreover, when you lash out at the world for doing exactly what you are doing to the RNC you make a mockery of yourself.

    The text, as it is plainly written, is not actionable as slander. It does not specifically assert that Congressman Conyers has committed a crime.

    Rather, the text specifically refers to a hypothetical situation whereby if the new law was in place, and given the Congressional habit of discussing things the Administration [in the past, and current] want to classify, then the reasonable person would conclude that the likely result would be the jailing of those who speak on the floor of any legislature.

    It is not appropriate to make public accusations of a tort based on a faulty legal foundation.

    It is not appropriate to assert someone "has or hasn't committed slander" when the words you refer to do not exist, and there is no specific allegation of having committed a crime.

    It is not appropriate for the world to lash out against someone who dares to use their mind and discuss the legal implications if the faulty legislation is approved.

    Moreover, it is not appropriate to ignore Legislators have immunity and can speak on whatever issues they want.

    Is it absurd to say that those who talk about classified information that is the fruit of the ether or the open source have somehow been a source of that leak. The two are separate matters.

    It is absurd to make a legally tenuous and weak legal argument, and then demand those you accuse to apologize or justify; when the real burden of proof falls onto the moving party, in this case the ConyersBlog Admin who allegedly acts on behalf of the Congressman; or Congressman Conyers.

    There is no credible threat of litigation from the ConyersBlog Admin.

    It remains to be seen whether the ConyersBlog Admin is held to standards of the blog in re harassment. A reasonable person could review the facts and conclude that the Admin is not trained on the definition of "public figure," "malice" or "slander vs. libel," and that the ConyersBlog Admin is allegedly engaging in a course of conduct that is harassing.

    The RNC is quiet. They will say nothing as long as the DNC is fighting itself.

    The consequences of shutting people out is that the ConyersBlog doesn't get the timely feedback that could calm the Admin and give them the correct information on "public figure," "malice," or "slander vs. libel."

    ConyersBlog Admin has shown that they are not able to take care of simple things [responding to e-mail]; thus we are not persuaded that they can credibly bring a cause of action, nor can they persuade any attorney to file papers in this matter.

    Rather, the ConyersBlog Admin threat of legal action is laughable. There exists not credible threat of litigation; and should any papers be filed, we remain convinced that a counter claim for alleged harassment, Anti-Slap, and libel could reasonably be expected.

    The blogger has reasonably explained their position, but the ConyersBlog Admin chose to continue demanding an apology directly and then allowing other comments and bloggers to assert this standard. This standard and burden of proof is absurd; the burden of proof rests with the ConyersBlog Admin and/or Congressman Conyers.

    The continued assertion of slander without legal foundation is an apparent course of conduct that the court would have to adjudicate: does the conduct amount to recklessness; has there been poor oversight and training; or conversely, is this an objective which Congressman Conyers wants to achieve?

    we can only speculate.

    The jury instructions for slander do not support a cause of action in re written statements. When a single element of that list fails, as it would in this situation, then the entire matter is dead, and the counter-claim is then reviewed.

    The alleged cause for action in this theoretical legal case would be incorrect. The actual cause of action would have to be libel and include specific assertions with probative evidence that the statements met the standard of "malice" in that they were made with reckless disregard for the truth.

    On that count alone, a reasonable person after reading the comments would conclude that the comments were a fair comment; and reasonably intended to advance the public debate and discuss the potential risks should the arguably flawed legislation were passed.

    It is not appropriate to twist someone's words, and assert a "claim of allegation of crimes" simply because one does not like the potential inference one might get. Rather, the assertion of libel must be from a plain reading of the text that a reasonable person, taken on the face of it would conclude. We find now legal authority before us that warrants the belief that "things alleged to possibly be inferred from a strange twisting of a statement" is a credible basis to demand relief.

    Public figures require recklessness to be the standard. We see nothing before us to suggest that the remarks were reckless; rather they were well thought out, complicated, and well crafted and succinct. That the ConyersBlog Admin is not able to understand them, or concludes something that might be adverse is not the problem of those who speak the words or write the comments.

    Rather, it is the role of the blogosphere and the Admin to see clarification before threatening sanctions.

    At this juncture, the ConyersBlog Admin choose to escalate rather than dialog; accuse rather than understand; and inflame rather than let the matter resolve itself on its won.

    The blogger has made a reasonable statement about their intent and this only helps to amplify that the comments were not only appropriate but timely. Because the blogger's explanation tends to undermine this key element of the jury instructions, we reject the entire claim of slander.

    Because classified information is regularly discussed on the floor of the legislature by referencing open source material in the media, we reject any claim that "any statement made on the house floor is or is not classified."

    Moreover, it is absurd to suggest that "talking about classified information" [by way of referencing open source media] is the same as "leaking classified information."

    The incident above offers valuable lessons. Conyers either does or does not exercise control of his blog. If he doesn't exercise control, then we have to ask what is needed to reign in ConyersBlog Admin; however, if Conyers does exercise control, we can only speculate as to the intent of smearing those who dare have an opposing view.

    Either Congressman Conyers has failed to train the ConyersBlog Admin on the laws related to "public figure" and "libel," and "malice"; or Congressman Conyers has failed to supervise.

    PNAC and RNC send people to do a job without training. In the above situation we see the same problem: Someone has been given a job to do without adequate support, training, or guidance. The ConyersBlog Admin appears to have been held responsible for solving the "wrong problem": Board disciple, not board accountability.

    The accountability problem is with ConyersBlog Admin, not the blogger.

    It is in appropriate for the ConyersBlog Admin to shift the burden of proof or demand an apology when the burden of proof rests with the ConyersBlog Admin:

  • Why is a written statement slander?

  • How can a reasonable public comment be "reckless disregard for the truth"?

  • How can a self-evident observation that Congress discusses classified information related to the Nixon and Chile torture [as reported in the media] be protected under the current statute?

  • Why is the ConyersBlog Admin shifting the burden of proof?

  • Is Congressman Conyers not a public figure?

  • How can a reasonable person conclude the statement was a direct accusation of a crime?

  • Why are you continuing to demand an apology where not apology is needed?

  • How many people do you plan to spin up to rally against a blogger who reasonably makes their personal opinion known?

  • What legal action is required to get the ConyersBlog Admin to get some training on the issues of slander, libel, defamation, public figure, recklessness, and malice?

    Do the ConyersBlog Admin, we have several questions which appear to have answers:

  • What defense do you have in a counter claim of harassment, slander, and/or Anti-Slapp? [Apparently none; thank you for exposing yourself to a credible threat of a counter-claim]

  • How much time do you plan to spend chasing ghosts? [Apparently alot, just like the RNC/PNAC want to diver the world looking for the WMD ghosts in Syria and Iran]

  • Can you see the similarities between your conduct and the RNC: Making accusations without legal foundation; asserting wrongs without reference to the laws; and demanding others respond when there is no requirement. [Apparently not able to see the similarities; more denial just like RNC]

  • Do you see how your actions undermine the Downing Street Memo objectives of speaking out against the above misconduct in the RNC? [Apparently not; just denial; wants the world to believe that the issues are separate; but the conduct is the same -- assert one standard for others, but not apply that standard to ourselves, that is not impressive]

  • Do you understand why the RNC is saying nothing? [Apparently the take the "RNC silence" as confirmation that the ConyersBlog Admin is "Correct"; RNC wants this dispute to continue so they can mock the ConyersBlog for the ridiculous claims]

  • Do you see the risk of banning people or keeping people of the blog or not responding to their private e-mails to discuss these issues? [Apparently not; ConyersBlog admin wants the world to believe they have 'all the answers,' but they do not know the simple difference between slander/libel; or the issues of "public figure," "malice" or "recklessness]

    How much time and energy do you want to expend to fight for a principle to which there is neither legal foundation nor any claim upon which the court can grant relief? [Apparently alot, which is a waste, a distraction, and has nothing to do with focusing attention on Rove, White House war crimes.]

    ConyersBlog Admin: Pull your head out of your ass. You're looking like a complete idiot.

    Point

    It appears the public smear by ConyersBlog Admin, made without any legal foundation, was just a pretext to ban someone who dared risk sharing their view.

    And who's talking to the RNC about the threat of "silencing dissent"?

    Just as Durbin said, unless you were told that the comments below were from the ConyersBlog, you could reasonably conclude that they were the same kind of comments used to silence those who dared speak out about the WMD-ruses in Iraq.

    Indeed, George Orwell's animals have turned into the RNC Farmers.

    Where's Hank when you need him? The board was just fine when the open debate managed the discussion.

    What's the price of silencing the dissent? People lose confidence in you, just as the public has lost confidence in the White House because of the Downing Street memo.

    And so too does the public lose confidence in those in the DNC who do the same as the RNC: Make public accusations without any legal foundation.

    George Orwell taught us that the animals and the farmer have to work in the same area. The question is who makes the rules.

    So long as those who enforce the rules are given free license to make up rules, smear without legal foundation, and act without regard to reasonable rules of discourse, neither the farmer nor the animals are focused on the real objective: Make food.

    The ConyersBlog Admin shows the danger of letting the world focus on illusory rules without there being open discussion of whether those rules are relevant, appropriate, or connected to actual deviations.

    ConyersBlog Admin shows, just as the RNC-PNAC have done with WMD and the Plame smearing, that if you have an objective [regardless the legality] that if you can mobilize the world to go after the target, there is little deference made to the rule of law.

    Let us hope that someone doesn't know what an Anti-Slapp statute is.

    Oh, darn. Looks like the cat's out of the bag on that one.

    You made a bad choice, ConyersBlog Admin.

    Review of the evidence

    Let's take some time to review the detailed comments made on the board.

    I think you'll easily see that it's been a simple misunderstanding.

    Exhibit 1 is the article which the blogger read in full, carefully relied upon. I am not speaking for them, but I have highlighted some of the relevant text.

    Notice below that there are several items highlighted. Those items clearly show that there was some discussion about legislators and the risk that they could be jailed.

    There is no specific mention of Congressman Conyers. Rather, the article below simply outlines the various risks associated with passing legislation that "does not permit" the discussion of classified information.

    It is a separate issue whether the information is leaked, or incorporated by reference, or whether there are referrals to that information in the open media.


    Exhibit 1


    Blogger provides unneeded public open source material support initial concern


    Comment #184: hcocdr said on 7/27/05 @ 10:05am ET...

    And one more to show I am not making this stuff up.

    http://www.nysun.com/article/17134

    Political Parties Reverse Roles in Debate Over CIA Leak

    BY JOSH GERSTEIN - Staff Reporter of the Sun
    July 18, 2005

    The debate over the leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity has caused a curious about-face by Washington politicians, with Democrats who have long favored a laissez-faire attitude toward leaks of classified information now decrying them, and Republicans who once wanted to criminalize every such leak suggesting that the one involving Ms. Plame wasn't so terrible.

    "This is just shameless," a former Justice Department official, Bruce Fein, said. He said the political posturing on both sides may actually encourage more leaks. "It really is staggering. It undercuts their own claim that it's serious business, because it makes people in the bureaucracy think the only issue is whether you have enough politicians lined up behind you."

    Those who track government classification policy were left spinning by last week's political developments, as Democrats moved to take advantage of the disclosure that President Bush's top political adviser, Karl Rove, apparently played some role as a source for news stories that exposed Ms. Plame's employment at the CIA.

    Several Democratic senators, including Senator Schumer, pushed for a new law stripping security clearances from leakers. The Senate's Republican leadership countered with a proposal aimed at denying clearances to lawmakers who release classified FBI reports or make comments that are used as propaganda by terrorist organizations.

    "It teaches us to be a little bit more skeptical of claims of national security," said a leading authority on government secrecy, Steven Aftergood of the Federation of American Scientists. "Our classification policies are inevitably filtered through a political lens."

    Five years ago, the roles of Democrats and Republicans were essentially reversed as Congress passed a law making every leak of classified information a crime. The measure, attached to an intelligence appropriations bill, was championed by Senator Shelby, a Republican of Alabama, and supported by all the major intelligence agencies. Over the objections of those agencies, President Clinton vetoed the bill. He warned that the anti-leak measure could be used to stifle dissent.

    Mr. Aftergood said that as he watched the political dynamic in Congress last week, he feared that it would again pass such a measure, which critics have compared to Britain's Official Secrets Act. "If someone had been alert and ready to do a little political jujitsu, they might have re-enacted an anti-leak statute," the policy analyst said. "I was holding my breath."

    Earlier this month, a New York Times reporter, Judith Miller, was jailed in connection with the criminal investigation into who leaked Ms. Plame's identity. Mr. Aftergood said such jailings would be commonplace if the 2000 anti-leak law were resurrected. "It would just mean journalism is the shortest path to jail," he said. "It would have been a disaster."

    Mr. Schumer, who staged three press events last week about Mr. Rove's alleged role in the leak of Ms. Plame's identity, is facing particular criticism for his stance. In an e-mail to reporters, Republican Party officials noted that in 1982 Mr. Schumer was one of 32 House members who voted against the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, the law at the center of the investigation that has swept up Mr. Rove and other White House officials.

    A spokesman for Mr. Schumer, Israel Klein, said the senator has been consistent. "Senator Schumer, who has been a longtime advocate for whistle-blower rights, felt that the initial law that was passed was a little bit too broad," Mr. Klein said.

    Mr. Schumer also denounced the anti-leak legislation Congress passed in 2000. "We should never forget that one of the core purposes of the First Amendment was to prohibit government from suppressing embarrassing information, not criminalizing its release," the senator said. He complained that the measure "would require all current and past government officials to guess at what might be illegal, while the threat of serious jail time hangs over their heads."

    Some conservative commentators have argued that if Mr. Rove did contribute to the disclosure of Ms. Plame's identity, he did so unintentionally and in the context of White House efforts to shake up an entrenched bureaucracy at the CIA. However, the anti-leak measure most Republican lawmakers supported five years ago included no requirement that prosecutors prove a leaker's intent before shipping him or her off to jail.

    In another twist, the man most responsible for persuading Mr. Clinton to veto the bill with the anti-leak pro vision has emerged as a vocal critic of Mr. Rove. A former chief of staff to Mr. Clinton, John Podesta, appeared yesterday on NBC's "Meet the Press," to call for Mr. Rove's ouster.

    In an interview with The New York Sun, Mr. Podesta said he sees the disclosure of an agent's identity as far more serious than most other leaks of classified information. "There's simply something different about naming agents' names," he said. "I don't think I'm splitting hairs here."

    Mr. Podesta said his main criticism of Mr. Rove is not that he violated any law, but that he may have lied about his involvement in the matter when asked by the White House press secretary, Scott McClellan.

    Mr. Clinton's impeachment has even been pulled into the debate over Mr. Rove's conduct. Last week, the Democratic Party sent reporters a list of quotations in which Republican lawmakers call any public official who lies unfit for office. The quotes were taken from the debate surrounding Mr. Clinton's false public statements about his relationship with a White House intern, Monica Lewsinky.

    Mr. Fein, who served in the Justice Department under President Reagan, said politicians appear to be incapable of holding a consistent position on leaks. He noted that Republicans complained loudly when Mr. Clinton pardoned a former director of central intelligence, John Deutch, who was facing misdemeanor charges for mishandling classified data. Democrats were similarly up in arms when a former national security adviser to Mr. Clinton, Samuel Berger, was charged criminally for removing classified documents from the National Archives.

    A Washington author who has been writing about American intelligence agencies for more than two decades, James Bamford, said he saw little consistency in the current debate.

    "The Republicans have been battling for years to criminalize this, criminalize that, creating enormous secrecy. Now all of a sudden this is just business as usual?" he said. "It's very hypocritical."

    Mr. Bamford said Democrats did little during the Clinton years to crack down on leaks. "It's all of a sudden come up now because they've found a potential midterm election issue here," he said.


    The above exhibit is included for all to read. It is here for discussion purposes only. It is not here for profit. Rather the information is posted so that you can get a sense of what was posted on the Conyers Blog; and see that the reasonable person would see there were problems with the statute.

    There is a real risk, should the legislation be passed, that a person speaking about classified material, even if it were in the open media, could be held in violation.

    The theoretical is different than the specific.

    The speculative risk is not the same as an accusation.

    The reasonable concern is raised

    One of the nice things about the ConyersBlog has been the open discourse and dialog. People have been able to discuss particular issues.

    IN this case, a reasonable person would want to show how the subject at hand relates to the Congressman.

    Whether the Congressman has or hasn't leaked information isn't the point; the issue at this juncture it to show that the point being discussed is of interest to the ConyersBlog.

    What better way to show the issue is relevant than to discuss what could theoretically happen to those who simply refer to information contained in the newspaper.

    Again, the issue is not whether someone is leaking information; but whether someone who reads a public newspaper and then comments on it, can be held in violation of the statute.

    This is the absurdity of the speculative legislation.

    Again, the point of the discussion is to show that even if someone read some classified information about the Nixon Administration [and that information mentioned alleged crimes, but Nixon has classified it] or Chilean crimes [and that information was classified by the CIA to hide the connection between the US and the torture committed in Chile], then someone making a public comment would be held in violation of that statute.

    However, this is absurd.

    The purpose of discussion is not to create a trap to then penalize them.

    This is the same absurdity to which the DSM coalition in 2005 and Minutemen in 1776 have already spoken: To speak of public wrongs is a right; and to speak out about absurdity is more than a right it is demanded when the forces of absurdity should be rejected.

    The initial public statement

    Exhibit 2 is the initial remark. Notice that the remark contains a simple conditional statement.

    First condition: If anyone has leaked, then they should be charged.

    Second condition: If we passed that legislation, then a legislator could be held in violation of that.

    Notice that the references above are two conditional statements. They are not asserted as fact; nor is there an accusation that someone has violated the law.

    Rather, all we have is the simply theoretical construct.

    We see nothing that specifically says Congressman Conyers has leaked classified information.


    Exhibit 2


    Blogger Does A Durbin: Uses an IF-Then Statement


    Comment #129: hcocdr said on 7/27/05 @ 4:25am ET...

    Hey I agree anyone that has leaked Classified Info should be charged, even if it's done on the floor of the House of Representatives.

    If we did that JC would be a cell mate.


    Notice the above comments spring forth from the article listed blow.

    Call for others to review for themselves

    This is the post which outlines the call for others to review the matter.

    It remains unclear why this is a problem.


    Exhibit 3


    Blogger Encourages others to review



    Comment #140: hcocdr said on 7/27/05 @ 4:45am ET...

    Doug,

    you guys know it all about JC

    [space entered]

    Look and see what you can find.



    Inquiry continues

    Reasonable public inquiry continues. What is the status of the particular legislator's actions?

    We have no answer from ConyersBlog Admin.


    Exhibit 4


    Blogger asks about Legislator Activity on Issue


    Comment #166: hcocdr said on 7/27/05 @ 8:56am ET...

    Did JC vote for or against the bill that would have included the penalties for the disclosure of classified information that exempted members of congress.


    An apology

    Note here that the blogger has apologized for something they don't need to apologize for.

    There is no merit to the claim that there has been slander; and the text of the original comment clearly is an if-then statement.

    There has been no actual defamatory statement made; nor is there any plausible case that the if-then statement is a direct allegation of a crime.

    But despite committing no wrong, the blogger assents and apologizes.

    Just like Durbin did: "I cannot stand the pressure, so I'm going to apologize for simply exercising my right to state an if-then conditional statement."

    Oh please!


    Exhibit 5


    Blogger provides an unneeded clarification



    Comment #170: hcocdr said on 7/27/05 @ 9:16am ET...

    How can someone flip so. When he had the chance to help do something about leaks he refused and now that itÂ’s someone else in the White House he is all over it.

    I was not accusing Mr. Conyers

    I was simply encouraging Doug to look beyond the DNC talking points for information.



    But the attacks continue

    Meanwhile, rather than seeing the problem is with ConyersBlog Admin, the board then increases the pressure on the blogger.

    What does the blogger do? They apologize again.

    This is the second time.

    It's not needed.

    Now, the bloggers have shifted their attention from "whether the original statements were actionable" [they were not] to the form, substance, and details of an unneeded apology.

    We see nothing before us that says that the "rules of membership on the Conyersblog" are related to the "appropriateness of response."

    Rather, ConyersBlog Admin has exercised new powers in rewriting the terms of "permissible use" and shifted from "rules that cannot be shown to have been violated" to new rules which were not part of the original agreement.

    Thus, at this juncture, the problem is that the ConyersBlog Admin has not only ignored their own rules [which is a separate cause of action in re Conyers re-election], but is a new construct, and a diversion.

    In other words, ConyersBlog Admin is doing exactly what the RNC does: Change the subject from "whether the original conduct is actionable" [in the case of Saddam's WMD it was not], and change the issue to "whether the response, apology" meets some sort of nebulous time, form, and structure standard.

    Can you see the similarities between the "shifting standard of conduct" applied to both the Blogger and Saddam?

    There is no difference> in short, it appears the real objective of the ConyersBlog Admin was to ban someone regardless the facts, laws, or membership agreement.

    This is simply an effort of the ConyersBlog Admin to yield power, where they actually have no moral or legal authority nor a legal foundation to act.

    Moreover, nothing in the membership agreement supports the imposition of some arbitrary "time and form standard" applicable to the absurdly-required apology for a non-violation of an illusory-standard.



    Exhibit 6


    Blogger provides an unneeded Dubinesque apology


    Comment #176: hcocdr said on 7/27/05 @ 9:35am ET...

    As far as the comment about Carl Rove and Mr. Conyers being a cell mate, for that I truly apologize.


    The attack starts

    Notice in this comment, ConyersBlog Admin makes a reference to "other measures." A plain reading of the rules and conditions makes it clear that these "other measures" are legal actions.

    Thus, this is the evidence that the ConyersBlog Admin has made a veiled threat of litigation. At this juncture, given the above discussion of the absurdity of that claim [in re slander], then we can only speculate that the allegation is not only without legal foundation, but is at best absurd.


    Exhibit 7


    ConyersBlog Admin Non-credible Litigation Threat and Unfounded Accusation



    HCODR --READ THIS

    I have been reluctant to ban anyone for things they say about Mr. Conyers on this blog. However, hcodr has crossed the line into slander, which surely [stet] violates "standards of polite discourse" (per his user agreement) but also has legal consequences.

    HCODR -- You are about the take the Admin challenge. You have twelve hours to respond to the following.

    [return added]

    The only acceptable responses are (1) I was wrong and I am sorry or (2) here is my proof.

    If you don't, I will ban you and explore what other actions can be taken against you.

    You posted the following:

    "Comment #129: hcocdr said on 7/27/05 @ 4:25am ET...

    Hey I agree anyone that has leaked Classified Info should be charged, even if it's done on the floor of the House of Representatives. If we did that JC would be a cell mate."

    "Comment #140: hcocdr said on 7/27/05 @ 4:45am ET...
    Doug,??you guys know it all about JC Look and see what you can find."

    Please provide proof of the allegation that Mr. Conyers "leaked classified info" , or retract you comments and apologize.

    The clock is ticking.



    Notice the above comment refers to #140, which is irrelevant, non actionable, but actually asks others to review the matter.. Thus that is no longer an issue.

    Also, notice the above comments include a veiled threat of litigation.

    And include comments that require retraction and an apology.

    Despite the absurdity of both demands which have no legal foundation and are not logically linked with the original remarks, the blogger has already satisfied the requirements.

    But what happens?

    ConyersBlog Admin changes the requirements, continues the bantering, makes accusations that laws are violated, and then gets the rest of the bloggers to join in.

    Unneeded apology rejected

    At this point, rather than let the issue lie, ConyersBlog Admin then rejects the reasonable effort to settle [that is not needed].

    And then says "that's not good enough."

    Huh?

    Wait a minute. There's nothing wrong with what was said. It was a conditional if-then, logically linked with a fair comment, and there was no specific allegation of a crime.

    Moreover, the comment was fair, involved a matter of public importance, and was related to a public figure.

    Thus, because there is a high standard of proof required on a public figure [in that there needs to be a reckless disregard for the truth], there is no claim.

    But what does the ConyersBlog Admin want? They want the world to believe that "their view of the law" prevails, however disconnected from reality that is a matter of law, for the court to adjudicate in a potential defamation claim against the ConyersBlog Admin.


    Exhibit 8


    Admin asserts a twisted conclusion


    Comment #180: Admin said on 7/27/05 @ 9:53am ET...

    HCODR -- Nice try. Your post said Conyers leaked classified information, not that he opposed a bill. Are you now retracting that claim?

    The clock is still ticking.


    Notice the above comment is no linked with the original statements. Conyersblog Admin has twisted the words of the original comment.

    There was no direct assertion that Conyers did or didn't leak anything. Rather, this is something that the ConyersBlog Admin "read into" the comment.

    But it isn’t there. Just like the WMD isn’t there.

    Thus, there is no merit to the arguments that the blogger has or hasn't met some arbitrary standard.

    The ConyersBlog Admin then states that the clock is still ticking as the blogger "hasn't retracted" or "not made an apology."

    But both are not needed as there was no infraction. Yet, despite complying with both requirements [that are illusory and not needed], ConyersBlog Admin shifts the question and burden of proof onto the blogger.

    This is absurd.

    The public discussion

    Still not satisfied, ConyersBlog Admin is given direct quotations which essentially restate the original quote.

    Again, the following document contained here in full for research and discussion purposes only is included by way of reference so that you can see the entire post and information used as the basis for the original comment.

    I see nothing here by a blogger that accuses anyone of a crime.

    Nor do I see anything here that warrants an apology.

    Rather, I see here the exact information which the ConyersBlog Admin asked for: Proof that the original statement was not only reasonable fair, and appropriate, but that the comments was of significant public interest.

    This issue was debated on the House floor. How can anyone argue that the matter is not of public importance?

    Indeed, it is a fair comment to raise a conditional statement based on the following information and relate the potential risks of that proposed legislation in terms that will relate to the audience, and answer:

  • How does this issue relate to Michigan?

  • Why is this issue of interest to the ConyersBlog?

  • How does the Conyers constituent get affected should this legislation be passed?

  • If this legislation is passed, could a legislator who references information in the Washington Post, and that information is arbitrarily classified, could they be held in violate of the law?

  • If someone who is a public servant refers to a matter that in the media, can they be held in violation of the statute?

  • Is it appropriate to hold the threat of jail time over someone who dares comment on allegations of criminal conduct by either the CIA or the President?

    On all counts, the issue is: How do we move forward under a republic to discuss issues, and ensure the rule of law prevails?

    The point of the discussion is not what someone has or hasn't done; but whether the rules, if they existed, would materially impact a public dialog on those issues and interfere with the needed oversight.

    In this case, with respect to Congressman Conyers, given his public figure status, and position on the House Judiciary Committee, it would be a chilling affect on the needed oversight if the mere hint of a reference to pen material tended to graze the reference of wrong doing.

    Bluntly, the absurdity of this discussion is the assumption that "talking about risks" is the same thing as committing the violation.

    Hello! That is the same outrageous absurdity which the White House used to go after Scott Ritter and Valerie Plame: Those in a position to talk about the risks [that there was no evidence of war, and the planned action was unlawful] were targeted, not because they were saying anything wrong, but because they dared stand up to a tyrant and a bully: George Bush.

    And at this juncture, it is clear that the same non-sense is occurring on the ConyersBlog, thanks to the ConyersBlog Admin: Make accusations of violations without any legal foundation; then simply ram rod people into the ground simply because you don't understand the law, and don't like "your interpretation" of what they may have said.

    The problem is: The actual text and message they said is not a violation.

    Rather, the real violation is to twist the facts into a construct that "justifies" more absurdity.

    Do you not see the similarity between this non-sense and the Downing Street Memo? The DSM showed us that the decision to act [or ban] was already fixed; and what was needed was a set-up or pretext [however twisted] to justify the action.

    But in both cases, there was no wrong doing. Rather, the real problem was that the "annoying opponent" wasn't falling into the trap.

    So what to do? Make up some sort of arbitrary rule, imply that others are or are not following some illusory requirement, and then take action regardless the appropriateness of that action.



    Exhibit 9


    Blogger provides unneeded public open source material support initial concern


    Comment #184: hcocdr said on 7/27/05 @ 10:05am ET...

    And one more to show I am not making this stuff up.

    http://www.nysun.com/article/17134

    Political Parties Reverse Roles in Debate Over CIA Leak

    BY JOSH GERSTEIN - Staff Reporter of the Sun
    July 18, 2005

    The debate over the leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity has caused a curious about-face by Washington politicians, with Democrats who have long favored a laissez-faire attitude toward leaks of classified information now decrying them, and Republicans who once wanted to criminalize every such leak suggesting that the one involving Ms. Plame wasn't so terrible.

    "This is just shameless," a former Justice Department official, Bruce Fein, said. He said the political posturing on both sides may actually encourage more leaks. "It really is staggering. It undercuts their own claim that it's serious business, because it makes people in the bureaucracy think the only issue is whether you have enough politicians lined up behind you."

    Those who track government classification policy were left spinning by last week's political developments, as Democrats moved to take advantage of the disclosure that President Bush's top political adviser, Karl Rove, apparently played some role as a source for news stories that exposed Ms. Plame's employment at the CIA.

    Several Democratic senators, including Senator Schumer, pushed for a new law stripping security clearances from leakers. The Senate's Republican leadership countered with a proposal aimed at denying clearances to lawmakers who release classified FBI reports or make comments that are used as propaganda by terrorist organizations.

    "It teaches us to be a little bit more skeptical of claims of national security," said a leading authority on government secrecy, Steven Aftergood of the Federation of American Scientists. "Our classification policies are inevitably filtered through a political lens."

    Five years ago, the roles of Democrats and Republicans were essentially reversed as Congress passed a law making every leak of classified information a crime. The measure, attached to an intelligence appropriations bill, was championed by Senator Shelby, a Republican of Alabama, and supported by all the major intelligence agencies. Over the objections of those agencies, President Clinton vetoed the bill. He warned that the anti-leak measure could be used to stifle dissent.

    Mr. Aftergood said that as he watched the political dynamic in Congress last week, he feared that it would again pass such a measure, which critics have compared to Britain's Official Secrets Act. "If someone had been alert and ready to do a little political jujitsu, they might have re-enacted an anti-leak statute," the policy analyst said. "I was holding my breath."

    Earlier this month, a New York Times reporter, Judith Miller, was jailed in connection with the criminal investigation into who leaked Ms. Plame's identity. Mr. Aftergood said such jailings would be commonplace if the 2000 anti-leak law were resurrected. "It would just mean journalism is the shortest path to jail," he said. "It would have been a disaster."

    Mr. Schumer, who staged three press events last week about Mr. Rove's alleged role in the leak of Ms. Plame's identity, is facing particular criticism for his stance. In an e-mail to reporters, Republican Party officials noted that in 1982 Mr. Schumer was one of 32 House members who voted against the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, the law at the center of the investigation that has swept up Mr. Rove and other White House officials.

    A spokesman for Mr. Schumer, Israel Klein, said the senator has been consistent. "Senator Schumer, who has been a longtime advocate for whistle-blower rights, felt that the initial law that was passed was a little bit too broad," Mr. Klein said.

    Mr. Schumer also denounced the anti-leak legislation Congress passed in 2000. "We should never forget that one of the core purposes of the First Amendment was to prohibit government from suppressing embarrassing information, not criminalizing its release," the senator said. He complained that the measure "would require all current and past government officials to guess at what might be illegal, while the threat of serious jail time hangs over their heads."

    Some conservative commentators have argued that if Mr. Rove did contribute to the disclosure of Ms. Plame's identity, he did so unintentionally and in the context of White House efforts to shake up an entrenched bureaucracy at the CIA. However, the anti-leak measure most Republican lawmakers supported five years ago included no requirement that prosecutors prove a leaker's intent before shipping him or her off to jail.

    In another twist, the man most responsible for persuading Mr. Clinton to veto the bill with the anti-leak pro vision has emerged as a vocal critic of Mr. Rove. A former chief of staff to Mr. Clinton, John Podesta, appeared yesterday on NBC's "Meet the Press," to call for Mr. Rove's ouster.

    In an interview with The New York Sun, Mr. Podesta said he sees the disclosure of an agent's identity as far more serious than most other leaks of classified information. "There's simply something different about naming agents' names," he said. "I don't think I'm splitting hairs here."

    Mr. Podesta said his main criticism of Mr. Rove is not that he violated any law, but that he may have lied about his involvement in the matter when asked by the White House press secretary, Scott McClellan.

    Mr. Clinton's impeachment has even been pulled into the debate over Mr. Rove's conduct. Last week, the Democratic Party sent reporters a list of quotations in which Republican lawmakers call any public official who lies unfit for office. The quotes were taken from the debate surrounding Mr. Clinton's false public statements about his relationship with a White House intern, Monica Lewsinky.

    Mr. Fein, who served in the Justice Department under President Reagan, said politicians appear to be incapable of holding a consistent position on leaks. He noted that Republicans complained loudly when Mr. Clinton pardoned a former director of central intelligence, John Deutch, who was facing misdemeanor charges for mishandling classified data. Democrats were similarly up in arms when a former national security adviser to Mr. Clinton, Samuel Berger, was charged criminally for removing classified documents from the National Archives.

    A Washington author who has been writing about American intelligence agencies for more than two decades, James Bamford, said he saw little consistency in the current debate.

    "The Republicans have been battling for years to criminalize this, criminalize that, creating enormous secrecy. Now all of a sudden this is just business as usual?" he said. "It's very hypocritical."

    Mr. Bamford said Democrats did little during the Clinton years to crack down on leaks. "It's all of a sudden come up now because they've found a potential midterm election issue here," he said.




    Accusation of a crime.

    However, when using information for the purposes of public discussion and research, it is appropriate to reference the material.

    Moreover, when the exhibit itself is part of the debate, one can only discuss the evidence if that full exhibit is included.

    Thus, we conclude that to accuse someone of "violating the copyright law" is an actionable claim against the ConyersBlog Admin.

    Conyersblog Admin has not discussed the fair use exception; and does not understand defamation which makes public accusation of a crime something which would satisfy a claim of defamation.

    Exhibit 10


    ConyersBlog Admin continues demands despite having conditions satisfied: Apology, explanation



    Comment #187: Admin said on 7/27/05 @ 10:12am ET...

    HCODR --

    Last chance.

    Answer my question in #180.

    Also, post a link and two paragraphs instead of an entire article.

    You are now violating copyright laws.



    Another apology

    But rather than fight the absurdity, the blogger relents and apologies.

    Great. Issue over.


    Exhibit 11


    Blogger makes second unneeded apology


    Comment #190: hcocdr said on 7/27/05 @ 10:30am ET...

    As far as the comment about Carl Rove and Mr. Conyers being a cell mate, for that I truly apologize.

    I am very sorry you took those comments to mean that, I said Mr. Conyers has ever leaked information from the House Floor. I am sure he would never do such a thing. See how easy it is to misunderstand people.

    I was right about the rest. He did not support it when he had the chance. You are the ones that jumped to the wrong conclusion as usual.


    The Witch Hunt

    But just as we saw in the Salem Witch Trials, and Nazi Gestapo, and public smear efforts during the McCarthy era, what is going on here?

    Why the very people who say they are for freedom, are now engaging in the smear.

    Why?

    Because they have been manipulated into asserting some sort of illusory standard.

    The ConyersBlog Admin has been manipulated, along with the ConyersBlog Bloggers to embrace fascism: Smearing, innuendo, public humiliation, and a total disregard for the law.


    Exhibit 12


    Others join in the accusations that are devoid of legal foundation


    Comment #242: Doug Eldritch said on 7/27/05 @ 7:43pm ET...

    hcocdr,

    Why is it that neocons are the ultimate hypocrites, when it comes to the facts!??

    First, you state Represenative [stet] Conyers has leaked classified information on the House Floor.

    Then you later retract your statement, and say he only supporte [stet] d leaking classified information on the House Floor.

    Now you are simply saying it wasn't either one.

    What is this back-pedaling about, are you afraid that you've been caught now?

    The facts are it was Neocon GOP member Porter Goss, who is now director of the CIA, that reccomended [stet] and streamlined the bill in order to offer "protection" for whistle blowers. However, it was done with a different state of mind.

    Conyers thought at that point, it would discourage whistle blowers and others in the service by passing the bill. He opposed it for different reasons.

    Goss was the one who made sure this bill went through to serve a particular agenda, as you are well aware now the CIA has been politicized by this man Goss.

    So your three tier accusations have fallen apart. Less than 2 hours left hco, and you have not provided any proof to Conyers leaking classified information.

    Is that destiny I hear calling? Don't forget to take your mess with you when the door shuts.

    Doug E.


    Notice the above continues to assert some sort of illusory timeline and deadline that is not needed.

    The masses have been rallied to assert the standard.

    But where is the legal foundation for their action?

    None. So what happens? Because, in their mind they are "right in their action," the next step is to rationalize the foundationless-accusations with more absurdity.

    Hello, fascism!

    Animal Farm

    Do you see the similarity between George Orwell's Animal Farm and the ConyersBlog?

    The issue is subtle.

    Orwell, in the final pages of the book clearly states that the Animals and the Farmer were no different.

    This is another way of saying that the original abuses allegedly committed by the Farmer were now what the Animals were doing.

    In short, the oppressed became the oppressors.

    With that came ridicule, secret police, and innuendo, shutting out, denying access, and smearing others.

    This is what is going on on the ConyersBlog, and there is no legal foundation for the accusations.


    Exhibit 13


    Animal Farm References are appropriate



    Comment #249: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/27/05 @ 8:08pm ET...

    Comment #245: Jonathan Gold

    That news item reminds me of Animal Farm when the animals went back to the constitution only to find the amendment "but some animals are more equal than others".

    Remember what they did to the old horse when he retired?

    It's a good thing us donkeys have a good memory, or do we?



    Public knowledge

    But it doesn't stop there.

    There is now public information that the banning and 'Refusing to respond" and "nonaccess list" is widespread.

    IT remains to be understood how many people have sent in e-mails and have not been responded to.

    Perhaps there are IPs that are deliberately filtered out;

    Maybe some IPs are not responded to;

    Maybe the e-mail is "lost".

    We have no idea. The point is that the apparent "problem with registration" is not isolated, but is affecting many people, and we have no idea how many.

    A website and public discussion is warranted. But that is beyond the scope of this discussion.


    Exhibit 14


    Double Standards on postings are well known



    Comment #228: Kertis said on 7/27/05 @ 6:52pm ET...

    Admin

    I had another short conversation with Rese. It went like this:

    Researcher

    It is of grave concern to me that you have been prevented from participating longer than we were told would be the case.

    This is because your exclusion, added to Constants exclusion compared to the extream [stet] tolerance Admin has shown to "Congressman" Van and "Commander" hcocdr, to cite the most disruptive examples, causes me to consider this obvious bias and wonder as to Admins' [stet] perception of the pourpose [stet] of this blog.

    This, coupled with the unreasonableness of the supposition that Congressman Conyers actually reads this blog, rather than relying upon Admin to summarize it for him, brings to the top of
    my mind questions as to this blogs legitimacy and usefulness.

    I ask again, Can you not post?

    Kertis
    ---------------------------------
    Thanks Kertis. I cannot post.

    I even tried to use a new name, and new email address. (Resespieces) It won't post.

    I have also sent emails to Conyers' email, contact. I have not received any responses.

    I will continue to email those on the list who are doing a tremendous job in exposing the lies of this Bush administration.

    I also can respond on Media Channel.com and will continue to post on Portland indymedia. I don't think that this is a valuable as the Conyers blog,
    because it's national.

    Luckily I copied some of the blogs and saved them before they were edited.

    Must be getting close to the truth to be banned.
    -----------------------------------------------
    Ten minutes later;

    Kertis:

    No I can't post as I previously told you today's e mail July 27.

    It many be that what I'm saying will anger some of the political contributers [stet] to Conyer's campaign. The Administrator probably has to please
    those who give the most money.

    It's like yes we have trial by jury, but those who can pay the best lawyer usually win their case. Unfortunately, this is true of honest politicians,
    they need money to advertise and reach people.
    -----------------------------------------------

    THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE

    In consequence [stet] of it I will not post here unless and until [stet] Researcher is allowed to return.

    My last word shall be that I want Constant to be here as well, as both these men are more capable and therefore more useful than I.

    See You Later, maybe.

    Kertis



    Adding insult

    Keep in mind, nothing that has been stated above warrants any action by ConyersBlog Admin.

    There i no legal foundation.

    Nothing said in the original post directly accuses anyone of doing anything.

    Rather, the only problem at this point is that the ConyersBlog Admin has accused the blogger of violation the copyright law. That is a separate cause of action in a subsequent complaint which may or may not be filed against ConyersBlog Admin.

    Copyright violations are a function of the use of the work. In those cases where there is a "fair use" of the work for educational, research, or public discussion, then it is permissible to include the entire work.

    Again, the issue is not whether the poster did or didn't violate the copyright. Rather, the issue is what basis is ConyersBlog Admin asserting that the "fair use" doctrine is no longer applicable in a small space on the internet?

    Moreover, the issue then blossoms into something else: If we are to believe that the "fair use doctrine" and the "educational and research exceptions" no longer apply, then clearly we have removed ourselves from the jurisdication under the umbreall of the US Constitution.

    That is legal fiction, illusory, and absurd. The determination of what constitutes "fair use" is up to a court to adjudicate, not for some blog admin to assert.

    Moreover, for the ConyersBlog Admin to assert "there was a copyright violation" all the whilte clearly communicating that they had not read any of it, despite the full citation as needed for complete reserach into this alleged slander, then ConyersBLog Admin has created a larger problem for themselves.

    They first demanded some sort of documentation or proof. That proof was given in the form of necessary back up material.

    That material was clearly linked with the proof required and demanded. Yet, despite that proffer, ConyersBlog Admin then used the full, complete compliance with that absurd demand as a justifcation to assert a violation.

    That is unacceptable, especially when ConyersBlog Admin put such a heavy burden of proof. More outrageous is that the burden of proof actually belongs on the ConyersBlong Admin:

  • What is the basis to assert that a full posting of a relevant news article for resarch purposes is not fair use?

  • What relationship does the ConyersBlog Admin have with the copyright holder to assert a violation of the copyright law?

  • Has the ConyersBlog Admin given the accused a fair hearing, chance to respond?

    On all counts, the answers are adverse not sipmly to the ConyersBlog Admin, but to Congressman Conyers and the Conressman Conyers Re-election effort.

    It appears ConyersBlog Admin gave not an ounce of care that the posting may fall in teh grounds of "fair use," especially when it is posted on a site that is not for commercial gain.

    There also appears to be no attorney-agent agreement that gives the ConyersBlog Admin a role in acting on behalf of a publisher to assert a cause of action for a copyright claim, especially in cases where the court could adjudicate that the use was fair and an exception. But ConyersBlog Admin didn't ask about that.

    It is absurd for the ConyersBlog in general to get upset about the "lack of hearing" given to the Dowinging Street Memo, patriot Act, or issues surrounding guantanamo when the ConyersBlog ADmin does the same thing as Sensenbrenner: Unilaterally decide the isses are outside the bounds of acceptance; demand some sort of arbitrary standard be met; and then without warning shut down that debated despite the audience meeting the changing rubric on presentation and standards.

    It appears as though ConyersBlog Admin was either asleep during the outrage over Sensenbrenner's outragous conduct; or the ConyersBlog in gernal has shifted into such a denial about its conduct that it fails to see the reasonable comparisons between the ConyersBlog Admin and the approach the RNC takes to the issues Congressman Conyers vigorously opposes: Abuse of authority, exceptions to rules, and a failure to afford a reasonable hearing to issues.

    Moreover, this phase of the Orwellian smear comes when the rest of the herd joins in with the drumbeats and demands a response.

    But where is the legal foundation?

    Why are the animals on the farm demanding accountability?

    Do any of the animals on the farm know the definition of "public figure" or "recklessness" or "disregard for the truth"?

    No!

    They don't want to know. Why? Because they are convinced that those who dare comment on the public issues are somehow "one of them."

    What the bloggers don't realize is that it is they who are doing exactly what the RNC does:

  • Smearing

  • Making charges without evidence

  • Holding others to arbitrary standards

  • Using non-sense to distract attention


    Exhibit 15


    More shifting the burden of proof



    Comment #242: Doug Eldritch said on 7/27/05 @ 7:43pm ET...

    hcocdr,

    Why is it that neocons are the ultimate hypocrites, when it comes to the facts!??

    First, you state Represenative [stet] Conyers has leaked classified information on the House Floor.

    Then you later retract your statement, and say he only supported leaking classified information on the House Floor.

    Now you are simply saying it wasn't either one.

    What is this back-pedaling about, are you afraid that you've been caught now?

    The facts are it was Neocon GOP member Porter Goss, who is now director of the CIA, that reccomended [stet] and streamlined the bill in order to offer "protection" for whistle blowers. However, it was done with a different state of mind.

    Conyers thought at that point, it would discourage whistle blowers and others in the service by passing the bill. He opposed it for different reasons.

    Goss was the one who made sure this bill went through to serve a particular agenda, as you are well aware now the CIA has been politicized by this man Goss.

    So your three tier accusations have fallen apart. Less than 2 hours left hco, and you have not provided any proof to Conyers leaking classified information.

    Is that destiny I hear calling? Don't forget to take your mess with you when the door shuts.

    Doug E.


    So, here the masses above, continue their smearing, just like the RNC likes to smear Plame.

    Where's the evidence against the blogger? They have none.

    Moreover, they have no legal foundation.

    The ConyersBlog has turned into a fascist cess pool of innuendo, accusations, absurd rules, and double standards on what is or is not enforced.

    Oh, and you want to know what those double standards are?

    Guess who was the one who included commercial statements in their blog post?

    That's right, the "big man" who says above that "the right answer" is for the target to apologize. read more here.

    Hay, I'm not waiting for an apology from big Doug E. He allegedly likes to include commercial items in cuts and pastes; but is anyone in the ConyersBlog Admin doing anything about that problem?

    I don't see any evidence. Last time I checked, the statement was still there and included the offending commercial link.

    But I digress.

    More crowds join

    Oh, it certainly is interesting how quickly the buffoons run in when they have no knowledge of what was originally said.

    Keep in mind, these are the same charges the DSM coalition rightfully levels against the RNC:

  • Distractions with non-events

  • Illusory deadlines above and beyond the original sign-in requirements


    Exhibit 16


    Others Join in on the deadline demand



    Comment #226: Neerav Trivedi said on 7/27/05 @ 5:57pm ET...

    You have less than 3 hours to answer the Admin's charges (by 8:37 P.M. EDT tonight).

    If not, you will be banished from Conyers Blog for good.

    Admin, make sure he is giving the right answers, and does so by the above-mentioned time, or else he will face banishment and embarassment [stet] as a result.

    Anarchy: No order or law in society. That how I define anarchy. Seeing what Bush ahs been doing these last 4 something years, I say this world is heading exactly there. Unless we stop Bush, we can avoid anarchy, let alone World War III!!!



    Note the above comment specifically mentions "embarrassment". That is an interesting word. Because if someone is accused of a crime and subsequently shunned, that is a cause of action in re defamation.

    Your words, and you keep digging yourself into a hole.

    Where's the retraction from the ConyersBlog Admin? "Oh, that standard does apply to me," says the Orwellian Pig.

    Shall we call ConyersBlog Admin "Napoleon" after the big pig in Orwell's book who likes to run around, make trouble, and afford himself special immunities to rules that only apply to others?

    The public embraces illusory standards

    The next step on the slide into Orwellian fascism is when the masses then take it upon themselves to impose some sort of standard that is not only illusory, but has neither a legal foundation nor any connection with the original agreement.

    Notice the following:

  • Referring to some sort of deviation that is an illusion

  • Asserting a standard was violated without any reference to the original comment, nor a comparison with the jury instructions or elements for that claim

  • Repeating an accusation as if it were proven true, and

  • Ignoring the apologies and additional information provided that show the comment was not only reasonable but warrants further discussion


    Exhibit 17


    Others evaluating the apology without regard to whether the original comment warranted an apology



    Comment #199: Ohiodem1 said on 7/27/05 @ 12:33pm ET...

    Sandra, hcocdr, Sorry I missed your exchanges above.

    I really do not believe hcocdr can be in Iraq, since he seems to have unlimited time to search the internet and get articles on any topic at any time of the day. My guess is that he works in the basement of the White House with a group of Republican spinners, or maybe in the basement of the RNC.

    Thanks for taking the time to take hcocdr on, Sandra.

    Someone said above or in another thread (Rusty, I think) that it is really going to get ugly as the truth gets near the administration. That time appears to be imminent.

    The attempted smear by saying that JC leaked classified info, then the half-assed apology in #176 which did not address the requested apology and retraction, nor did it even spell Karl Rove's name correctly is inadequate.

    hcocdr's comment #185 stands by the half-assed apology in #176 and then stands by all other allegations re: JC and leaking of classified information. Not good enough, hcocdr.

    As I posted previously, this administration operates by attack and smear, they play the game of the politics of personal destruction like no others in our history and I believe folks like hcocdr, if not directly involved with the smear machine, are implicit players in that nasty game.

    How about it hcocdr, are you going to retract the offending statements and apologize to Representative Conyers?

    Or will you continue to be a willing participant of the Republcian [stet] Attack Machine?



    After reading the above, ask yourself:

  • Why would anyone want to be associated with these people?

  • How disconnected are their claims from reality?

  • How far will they go in pursuing their agenda?

  • What new standards will they create?

  • Is their action so devoid of legal foundation that they are willing to do this to their own?

    Apparently, the gap between the law and the accusation is large; and the evidence that has been provided has been ignored.

    The little farm animals like to keep their blinders on, especially when they continue to follow Napoleon, however absurd an lawless he might be.

    Do you see the similarity between Animal Farm and ConyersBlog?

    Do you understand how people in the RNC can do what they do?

    DO you see how you have been enraged to act without regard to the law?

    Do you understand how people, how are poorly educated, can be manipulated to take action and justify their actions?

    DO you see the danger of allowing contractors to "Lead" American troops in torture?

    The answer is: If you do not see it now, I can assure you that you can be manipulated into further abuses and misconduct.

    The whole world can see it.

    This is how easily you can be manipulated.

    For you were told to assert your rights. To such an extent that you were blind to how you were being manipulated.

    Imposing standards on others not followed

    But it doesn't stop there. Notice the long post and the assertion that the posts are easy to rip apart.

    Notice the long talk about service in the Navy.

    Oh, what relevance does that have to a comment about speaking on the House floor?

    Nothing.

    It is merely the arrogant fascists calling up "their public service" as some sort of verbal armor.

    But Big Doug E. also likes to include commercial links in posts and then do nothing about it.

    Is this how the military trained you? To create exceptions for yourself?

    To wave the flag?

    To jump in without examining either the laws or the facts?

    The dangerous ones are those who wave the flag of the NAVY, and ask the world to grovel on the ground, "Oh, yes we blindly obey you Doug; because if we do not follow you, we will be against the military."

    Wake up! They wave the flag, as does this leadership in the White House, to rally you to act without thinking.


    Exhibit 18


    Bloggers asserting demands which have no legal foundation: Harassment?


    Comment #215: Ohiodem1 said on 7/27/05 @ 3:41pm ET...

    hcocdr #207, 208, 177, 206

    I was in the Navy. When a ship is at sea, all hands work 12 hours on, 12 hours off, 7 days a week. If you work on the flight deck, which is dangerous work, and all personnel are volunteers, those folks work 18 hours per day during combat flight operations. There is only one flight deck crew, and they are on deck any time the ship is at flight quarters.

    The Abraham Linclon [stet], used as a prop for the infamous "Mission Accomplished" photo op for George W. Bush was at sea for 282 days continuously, and the crew worked those hours for months on end with no liberty, which I feel is a crime against sailors. Then the President used those sailors for his own self-aggrandizement.

    If you get a day off every so often, that is fine. I just find it hard to believe that you can play propagandist as much as you do from a combat zone. If you are, you are screwing your fellow soldiers.

    You seem to be picking up all the happy talk coming off the Fox News or some other Republican Talking Points wire.

    My own service was, in an abstract way devoted to defending the right of all Americans to enjoy all of the freedoms guaranteed by our Constitution and Bill of Rights. If you are serving, which I doubt, your service is intended to protect the same rights.

    I do not know if you realize it or not, you as a soldier have a right to disagree with your leaders, just as long as you do not disobey a lawful order from them. The Commander in Chief has no presumptive right to the blind obedience or to the respect of his military men and women. Respect must be earned, and this president has earned very little respect from his men and women, apparently present company excepted.

    If you are in Iraq, I want you to consider the fact that Soldiers, Marines, Airmen and Sailors have died in large numbers, have been severely wounded and injured in large numbers, have become severe psychological casualties in large numbers, and that they are in that theater of war on the basis of lies, false statements, fear mongering and all manner of faked intelligence, misrepresentation of good intelligence, by the civilian leadership you seem to worship.

    Moving on, in your post #177 you reprint an article from 2000, discussing a leak of secure material law that was vetoed by Bill Clinton. In that same article, Congressman Conyers is quoted. Remember this was from the year 2000. In your post #206, you take Congressman Conyers comment out of context, and make it appear to be a contemporary comment by the use of the sentence “Now he’s defending the CIA?”, except that he said in another context on another topic in the year 2000.

    If anyone pays attention to your overly long posts, which by the way violates one of the rules of this blog, in that you are requested to post a paragraph or two, then provide a link, which you never do. Anyway, when someone actually pays attention to your posts, they are easy to rip apart because they do not stand up to rigorous scrutiny.

    I repeat my question “How about it hcocdr, are you going to retract the offending statements and apologize to Representative Conyers? Or will you continue to be a willing participant of the Republican Attack Machine?”


    Summation

    Citizens! You have been manipulated to assert your rights, but to act without regard to the law.

    You have become what we oppose.

    If you choose to align yourself with this outrageous conduct, you are no better than the RNC.

    Choose: Do you want a nation based on laws.

    Or do you want tyranny.

    The ConyersBlog Admin has embraced his own tyranny.

    Are you with him or the rule of law?

    You have chosen a poor ally.

    Awaken! Do not be manipulated. Examine the facts. Know the law.

    It will set you free.

    General Jury Instructions on Defamation, Libel and Slander

    If we review the jury instructions, we shall see that the ConyersBlog Admin has a weak legal foundation.

  • Conyers Is a Public Figure and has a higher burden of proof

    Public figure elements in re slander

  • The average reader who looks at both the original comment and the law finds no problem with what the blogger has stated

    Whether the comment has an effect on the average reader.

  • There is no merit to the argument that the blogger was negligent. Their comments were protected, appropriate, personal opinion, and were incorrectly misconstrued.

    Whether the comment is made negligently

  • The comments are protected speech about a matter of public interest.

    Fair comment, opinion, truth, or matter of public interest as a defense defamation or libel.

  • ConyersBlog Admin has allegedly defamed a blogger

    Accusing someone of violating the copyright law [when there is a reasonable public interest in discussing the entire document or the material is posted for research purposes] is a actionable.

    Conclusion

    In my personal opinion, many readers of the ConyersBlog are making statements that are disconnected from reality.

    You appear to be spun up over something that is not actionable.

    Any assertion that Conyers has been slandered or defamed are absurd. A reasonable reading of the comment shows that there has been no slander, libel, or defamation.

    Onthe contrary, the only person who appears to have allegedly engaged in any sort of defamation is the ConyersBlog Admin when he accused someone of violating the copyright laws by posting an article.

    This is absurd. Because the information as "proof" was cited as a requirement to be posted, otherwise the blogger would have been banned.

    Moreover, when the issues discussed continually are ignored, a reasonable person would post the entire article. At this juncture, it is clear that despite the fullposting of the content, the ConyersBlog and ConyersBlog Admin didn't read the material.

    That is not a cause of action. That is stupidity and ignorance.

    The above is a fair public comment.

    If you do not agree with the above, then you need to blog about it.

    If you do not like the laws, then have them changed. But do not undermine your cause by assertion "violations of the law" when no violation exists. To do so simply asks the world to embrace your absurdity instead of that from the RNC.

    We are a free people.

    We can choose. The issue is between the rule of law and tyranny.

    We are not forced to choose between RNC-absurdity or ConyersBlog Admin-absurdity.

    If you do not understand the above material, then you need to keep your mouth shut, find an attorney, and figure out where your problems are.

    At this juncture, it is clear many people on the ConyersBlog are spewing forth innuendo, non-sense, absurd accusations, and jumping to conclusions without any understanding of either the essential issues, what was originally said, or the legal foundations.

    In short, by jumping into an issue, you have exposed yourself to litigation risk.

    If you would like to continue down this path, I can assure you . . . you will lose.

    And that is not a threat.

    It is a promise.

    How do I know?

    For this is what I have done.

    Your job is to quiet your bickering, settle this matter, and focus your attention on the real non-sense coming out and distracting your attention from Rove and the impeachment and war crimes.

    Take the above as a lesson: How quickly a group of well intentioned people can spiral into fascism, commit abuses, make stupid statements without regard to the rule of law, and then rationalize it.

    You now know the enemy you fight. How? You have become that enemy.

    Take the lessons and redirect your energy to defeat that which you have become.

    If you do not rally your cause to defeat the RNC, then I shall defeat both the RNC and the ConyersBlog.

    I can assure you, I am far more powerful than either of those forces combined. And if you would like for me to prove it, I shall do so again.

    Think about how you got to where you are.

    As I said, I will do it again to make my point.

    And then, when that happens, you will have nothing but defeat as your ally.

    Choose. Tyranny. Or A Constitution.

    Choose wisely.

    If you dare do the above non0sense again, or be so absurd in your arguments as you have shown above, I will return and make utter fools of you all.

    Then rub your nose in it.

    Remember, your opponent has already fallen into the trap. But you now know where you are.

    There is time for you to recover.

    Do so, and you will succeed.

    But if you fail to adjust, you will be no better than those you fight.

    Then you will have to deal with me.

    Do you want to choose fascism and absurdity, attempt to defeat the RNC, and dare to go up against the likes of me?

    It is a waste of your time.

    Snap out of it.

    Your goal and prize are the Constitution.

    Remember your purpose: It is to preserve the law and enforce it, not rewrite the rules and do something else.

    Chose: The Constitution, or a tyrant.

    Do not become that which you hope to defeat.

    You will simply align yourself with those who shall be defeated.

    How do I know?

    For this is what I have done.

    Hoc voluerunt!

  • Read more . . .